Key Post Electric Vehicles

[Blackrock1]

What EV did you get? I've a hybrid and have a home charger. My observation on the charging infrastructure was really just observational that I've seen a lot more full EVs on the road but not an increase in charging infrastructure outside of motorway service stations.

Thats the only inconvenience I see currently for me personally. As I've a young family and spend time visiting family who currently don't have home chargers!

Disappointingly the IT had an article on the budget yesterday suggesting EVs will significantly increase in price under new tax measures. This seems the reverse of incentivising people to move to EVs. I'm still not sure why a Tesla here is so much more than in the US, is it just tax?


The price of the average new car will rise by €1,294 – while all-electric cars like the Volkswagen ID.3 Family will jump by about €4,100 – under proposed Budget 2021 tax changes.

we have an Audi Etron, mostly because at the time we were buying it was the only EV that suited our needs with two small kids, car seats, buggys etc.

The only draw back of the etron is the range, its comfortable, spacious, massive boot, and for a 2.5 tonne suv more than fast enough. It will do 300km on a (very) good day, but we are urban dwellers and i take the dart to work so we charge it once a week at most. For the few annual staycations i havent found charging an issue (as again with 2 smallies a 4 hour journey will always require a pit stop). And normally i have found a way to charge at the location we are staying at, normally a slow charge with an outdoor socket but it tends to do the job. So in summary it requires a little forward planning a few times a year but for the rest of the time there are no trips to the petrol station and a fully fuelled car whenever we need it.

My in laws have a charge point also which helps with trips to them.

So i wouldnt put anyone who lives in an urban setting with access to their own charging off an EV, even one with as low range as mine. Unfortunately the etron has gotten a lot more expensive as it falls outside most of the grants and stuff now.

 

[Purple]

so you currently drive a 520 bmw (im assuming its a 4 pot diesel you have), thats all i asked, i have driven a few, nice cars, my dad has one, but if thats what you are driving denouncing ev's as not as engaging or sterile isnt credible imo.

And you're entitles to your opinion. I just don't like them.

 

[Blackrock1]

And you're entitles to your opinion. I just don't like them.

my opinions or Evs? both perhaps?

Either way you'll have to get used to it, it's the future

 

[Leo]

This seems the reverse of incentivising people to move to EVs.

I wonder if it's driven by someone crunching the numbers and figuring just how much it would cost them to subsidize the target of 900k EVS over the next 8 years.

 

[Purple]

my opinions or Evs? both perhaps?

Either way you'll have to get used to it, it's the future

EV's. Your opinions are perfectly fine.
I do have a problem with the notion that once you are driving an EV you've done your bit for climate change as it's such a small part of the problem and, as I've said, if you are not doing high mileage then a second hand IC car is a better environmental option than a new EV.

 

[Purple]

I wonder if it's driven by someone crunching the numbers and figuring just how much it would cost them to subsidize the target of 900k EVS over the next 8 years.

Or maybe the fact that we'll run out of electricity before we're half way there.

 

[Firefly]

I currently drive a BMW 520.
The fastest car I ever drove was a DB9.
The most fun car I ever drove was a MX5.
My first car was a Honda Civic (I didn't deliver pizza or drugs, it was before that was a thing).
My favourite colour is green.
I've no idea what my star sign is.
I like romantic walks in the woods.

Well that's a surprise!

 

[arbitron]

The move away from ICE is about more than climate change. ICE vehicles produce nitrogen dioxide and particulate matter that directly affect respiratory health. Even if we put aside the benefits for the earth as a whole, removing these pollutants gives direct and immediate benefits on a local level.

There are also geopolitical considerations - do we want to remain dependent on oil-producing for energy and transport? We cannot produce petrol here but we are producing more and more of our own electricity from renewables.

It's not true to say that a 2nd hand ICE vehicle is greener than a new EV. There are several variables to consider and in many cases the new EV is still cleaner.

As for the driving experience, I know very few people who get excited about driving their ICE car. My family and neighbours mostly have boring, reliable cars. A lot of them would like an EV as it is quieter, cleaner, automatic, and cheaper to run. Range is less of an issue with newer EVs but the big barrier is the price.

 

[DublinHead54]

we have an Audi Etron, mostly because at the time we were buying it was the only EV that suited our needs with two small kids, car seats, buggys etc.

The only draw back of the etron is the range, its comfortable, spacious, massive boot, and for a 2.5 tonne suv more than fast enough. It will do 300km on a (very) good day, but we are urban dwellers and i take the dart to work so we charge it once a week at most. For the few annual staycations i havent found charging an issue (as again with 2 smallies a 4 hour journey will always require a pit stop). And normally i have found a way to charge at the location we are staying at, normally a slow charge with an outdoor socket but it tends to do the job. So in summary it requires a little forward planning a few times a year but for the rest of the time there are no trips to the petrol station and a fully fuelled car whenever we need it.

My in laws have a charge point also which helps with trips to them.

So i wouldnt put anyone who lives in an urban setting with access to their own charging off an EV, even one with as low range as mine. Unfortunately the etron has gotten a lot more expensive as it falls outside most of the grants and stuff now.

My friend has the ETron and tows his caravan on it!

I've definitely noticed an uptick in 211/212 cars being full EV, in particular the VW models. The home charger installation game must be very profitable! Convenient that the grant is 600 Euro for installaton and they charge 600 Euro to install!

I am not a car person at all, but I do find the EV quite fun to drive, I have a PHEV. I will likely get a EV when I change cars, but that could be as long as 5-10 years from now. I am hoping that Solid State Batteries have made leaps and bounds by then allowing the prices to drop further but I suspect producers will over solid state models at a higher price point.

I also think at this stage for the average family in Ireland buying an EV right now even with the grants is very expensive. We are just moving from Climate change being an existential threat to an experiential threat. In this transition the average person is still valuing price point over climate impact when purchasing a car i.e. climate impact is not strong enough to pay the EV premium currently. That is my opinion at least, but it is changing.

 

[Blackrock1]

My friend has the ETron and tows his caravan on it!

I've definitely noticed an uptick in 211/212 cars being full EV, in particular the VW models. The home charger installation game must be very profitable! Convenient that the grant is 600 Euro for installaton and they charge 600 Euro to install!

I am not a car person at all, but I do find the EV quite fun to drive, I have a PHEV. I will likely get a EV when I change cars, but that could be as long as 5-10 years from now. I am hoping that Solid State Batteries have made leaps and bounds by then allowing the prices to drop further but I suspect producers will over solid state models at a higher price point.

I also think at this stage for the average family in Ireland buying an EV right now even with the grants is very expensive. We are just moving from Climate change being an existential threat to an experiential threat. In this transition the average person is still valuing price point over climate impact when purchasing a car i.e. climate impact is not strong enough to pay the EV premium currently. That is my opinion at least, but it is changing.

its a bad state of affairs when electric ireland are probably the best value for charger installs, but i agree there is a lot of gouging going on.

 

[Purple]

so you currently drive a 520 bmw (im assuming its a 4 pot diesel you have), thats all i asked, i have driven a few, nice cars, my dad has one, but if thats what you are driving denouncing ev's as not as engaging or sterile isnt credible imo.

It's a few years since I drove a nice petrol car (4 kids and a separation, paying half a mortgage and renting a house at the same time, will do that) but if I was spending €70k on a car, even a family car, I could think of nicer cars to drive than an e Tron. They are lovely but they're no fun. That's all. I'd also buy second hand, for environmental reasons.

 

[Blackrock1]

It's a few years since I drove a nice petrol car (4 kids and a separation, paying half a mortgage and renting a house at the same time, will do that) but if I was spending €70k on a car, even a family car, I could think of nicer cars to drive than an e Tron. They are lovely but they're no fun. That's all. I'd also buy second hand, for environmental reasons.

Im sure you could, so could i, but given that i wanted electric and had certain space requirements it was the best option. and i wish it had cost 70k

 

[Purple]

Im sure you could, so could i, but given that i wanted electric and had certain space requirements it was the best option.

Can't argue with that.

and i wish it had cost 70k

I was quoting the base price but yes, Audi do have nice extras and they know how to charge for them.

 

[time to plan]

The LEAF is at the extreme end of the cost but Leo's link shows people being charged €30,000 for a replacement.
As far as I'm aware it is not possible to replace a battery with a higher spec one, although improved manufacturing processes can improve battery life. A 2017 Leaf will cost you around €15k. Would you buy that car knowing that in 5 years the battery could cost you more than you paid for it?

But what is the typical cost? I'm fairly sure it's not €30k.

 

[Blackrock1]

But what is the typical cost? I'm fairly sure it's not €30k.

5-7.5k depending on the battery.

 

[time to plan]

5-7.5k depending on the battery.

And does anyone know what the value of a a 9 year old Leaf with a new battery is likely to be?

 

[Leo]

5-7.5k depending on the battery.

Have you links confirming anyone has ever gotten a €5k replacement here including labour?

 

[Zenith63]

Have you links confirming anyone has ever gotten a €5k replacement here including labour?

Sorry Leo but are there any links to suggest anybody has NEEDED a new battery here, or indeed in any moderate climate where they weren't buying a clapped out old vehicle? This whole discussion is happening based on the strawman that the average person is ever going to need to replace their battery on an average EV they buy today.

It's like having a discussion about the price of a replacement engine for a 2019 Peugeot 3008 before buying one. Yes in 10-20 years time that would be a good discussion on a petrolheads forum, but today for the average consumer it just generating unnecessary anxiety based on zero data.


The "real" issues with EVs which are different to petrol/diesel cars that consumers actually do need to concern themselves with are:

• If you need to do a lot of mileage regularly or in a short period of time the need to stop and charge is painful, you should not buy an EV yet
• There are only higher-end options in certain categories available right now, perfect substitute if you were gonna buy a nice Golf or BMW 3 series, but if you need a 7 seater for €35k or a new compact for €10k you should not buy an EV yet
• They are cheaper to run in every way compared to a petrol/diesel car, but they are currently more expensive to buy. If your only reason for buying is to save money you need to buy wisely and secondhand or be doing big mileage, otherwise do not buy an EV yet

 

[Firefly]

The battery replacement cost for older EVs could be a big deterrent me going electric. I normally buy cars about 6-7 years old, usually with my Lasercard , which have been nicely depreciated...

 

[Leo]

Sorry Leo but are there any links to suggest anybody has NEEDED a new battery here, or indeed in any moderate climate where they weren't buying a clapped out old vehicle? This whole discussion is happening based on the strawman that the average person is ever going to need to replace their battery on an average EV they buy today.

I understand it's a rare occurrence, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid consideration. Why link solely to climate, do EV drivers never crash?

There are quite a few examples documented of crazy charges being sought or charged. I haven't been able to find a single case of anyone getting a replacement including labour for €5k as Nissan stated it would cost.