Dublin City Centre - Car Restrictions

[Gordon Gekko]

Define 'woke' Gordon. It's an abused term with mainly negative connotations so if it is not being used negatively by you can you please provide your definition of the word.
The proposal here is not to stop cars coming into the city centre. It is to stop cars travelling through the city centre to get from one side of the city to the other. That sounds perfectly laudable as an ambition to me. None of the points made against it are valid arguments when you frame them against the actual proposal here.

How exactly do you stop people driving across the city without messing with people driving into the city? This is nonsense. Green Party rubbish in a world where hardly anyone votes for these people.

 

[time to plan]

The Irish Times tried to imply that because a majority of respondents to a council request for submissions supported something, a majority of people supported it.

So rather than your statement:

the Irish Times claims everyone supports this. They don’t.

...this would be accurate:

the Irish Times claims not everyone supports this. They don’t.

 

[odyssey06]

Nobody is saying they can't do this still, just not directly through the city center! God forbid someone having to drive around rather than through the middle, the horror.


Agree with this but I think a lot of people would agree that having less (or no) cars to contend with would make places of leisure more pleasant experiences.

But why are they not driving around at the moment? It doesn't really answer the question. You're assuming there are usuable alternatives that don't involve a massive detour or going through mazes. That they are driving through the city centre despite the traffic etc suggests otherwise.

 

[T McGibney]

Agree with this but I think a lot of people would agree that having less (or no) cars to contend with would make places of leisure more pleasant experiences.

We've visited Ljubliana on a number of occasions since the 1990s and by the time of our last visit 8 or 9 years ago, pretty much all cars had been removed from the city centre and especially from the previously bustling and borderline unpleasant street of Slovenska cesta which lies parallel to the main square. The thing was we found the centre on that occasion rather dead, and we were told that a lot of marquee shops had moved out of the city centre to a new destination shopping centre further out.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Define 'woke' Gordon. It's an abused term with mainly negative connotations so if it is not being used negatively by you can you please provide your definition of the word.
The proposal here is not to stop cars coming into the city centre. It is to stop cars travelling through the city centre to get from one side of the city to the other. That sounds perfectly laudable as an ambition to me. None of the points made against it are valid arguments when you frame them against the actual proposal here.

I would describe ‘woke’ as virtue signalling and jumping on over-simplistic bandwagons just to appear to be seen on the right side of any argument (which is usually a media-driven left wing agenda).

 

[Gordon Gekko]

So rather than your statement:


...this would be accurate:

Pedantic nonsense. The Irish Times are suggesting a huge majority (80%) support this. Only a pedant would make the silly comment “uh, well technically that’s not everyone”.

 

[Leo]

References to ‘complete bans’ from the ‘entire city centre’ are overly pedantic.

Then perhaps stop bringing it up, and stop pretending that plans to remove cars from parts of the city centre equates to drovers being 'prohibited' from the city.

There are no playground tactics…this is a woke agenda supported by very few people other than the Greens who will be wiped out at the next general election.

The term woke is almost universally used in a derogatory manner, meant as a term of disapprovement often in reference to people of extreme views. I'm a long way off being woke and I'm no environmentalist, but I'm still very much in favour of significantly reducing private cars in more areas of Dublin.

What evidence do you have to support the assertion that very few people support a reduction in the number of private cars in the city centre? Most people here seem to be in favour, and AAM isn't exactly an environmentalist collective!

 

[T McGibney]

Pedantic nonsense. The Irish Times are suggesting a huge majority (80%) support this. Only a pedant would make the silly comment “uh, well technically that’s not everyone”.

 

[time to plan]

Pedantic nonsense. The Irish Times are suggesting a huge majority (80%) support this. Only a pedant would make the silly comment “uh, well technically that’s not everyone”.

Only a fool would say that it is everyone.

 

[Ceist Beag]

How exactly do you stop people driving across the city without messing with people driving into the city? This is nonsense. Green Party rubbish in a world where hardly anyone votes for these people.

It's not rocket science Gordon. Are you really saying you cannot imagine a way to allow you to drive into a city but not traverse across it?

 

[Itchy]

Plans to reallocate road space across Dublin city centre from private cars to buses, cyclists and pedestrians have been “overwhelmingly” endorsed by the public, according to a report to be presented to Dublin city councillors this week.

More than 80 per cent of submissions supported the Dublin City Centre Transport Plan, which aims to end the dominance of cars on the city’s streets.

Plan to reduce car routes across Dublin and create new civic plazas ‘overwhelmingly endorsed by public’

Diageo and car park operators among businesses to raise concerns about plan to be presented to councillors this week

www.irishtimes.com

Pedantic nonsense. The Irish Times are suggesting a huge majority (80%) support this. Only a pedant would make the silly comment “uh, well technically that’s not everyone”.

How are the "Irish Times suggesting" anything? They are reporting what a report to DCC says!

 

[Sarenco]

Must say, I’m delighted with these developments and I think it’s positive that there appears to be pretty much unanimous support for the move amongst our city councillors.

I’ve spent some time in Bordeaux in recent years, where they have managed to almost entirely remove private cars from the central core. It’s an absolute pleasure to walk around and I would love to see us moving in that direction.

No doubt this will result in “big box” stores increasingly moving out to retail centres off the M50 but that trend seems to be well entrenched regardless.

Joe Duffy currently ranting about these developments - seems Gordon isn’t alone in his views.

 

[odyssey06]

...

It's not rocket science Gordon. Are you really saying you cannot imagine a way to allow you to drive into a city but not traverse across it?

Unless you are keeping track of car registrations at checkpoints then it seems rather difficult if you are allowing cars to come in from multiple directions and then depart a common place inside the city.

 

[time to plan]

Must say, I’m delighted with these developments and I think it’s positive that there appears to be pretty much unanimous support for the move amongst our city councillors.

I’ve spent some time in Bordeaux in recent years, where they have managed to almost entirely remove private cars from the central core. It’s an absolute pleasure to walk around and I would love to see us moving in that direction.

It's only a pleasure if you like boarded up shops because every high spending car driver stopped spending money.

 

[Fortune]

God forbid someone wants to get to the other side of the city! A Northsider shopping on the Southside. The horror.

Good luck getting into the city if you can't use the quays.

Maybe it would help if the alternative routes for cars are laid out properly and sign posted, instead of being sent through a maze. There might be a reason why cars are going through the city centre and it is not just about lack of public transport options.

What's being talked about here by Ryan should be last resort.

I hardly think someone from finglas looking to shop in Dundrum wants to drive there via the quays and Pearse street

 

[Sarenco]

It's only a pleasure if you like boarded up shops because every high spending car driver stopped spending money.

I didn’t see any boarded up shops in central Bordeaux.

On the contrary, it was striking how vibrant and diverse the retail offering was in central Bordeaux compared to Dublin City centre.

It’s worth emphasising that this development is not designed to prevent car journeys into the city centre - it is designed to reduce car journeys through the city centre.

 

[time to plan]

I didn’t see any boarded up shops in central Bordeaux.

On the contrary, it was striking how vibrant and diverse the retail offering was in central Bordeaux compared to Dublin City centre.

That can't be true. Are you in the pay of the pinko IT?

 

[Ceist Beag]

...

Unless you are keeping track of car registrations at checkpoints then it seems rather difficult if you are allowing cars to come in from multiple directions and then depart a common place inside the city.

Odyssey I'm surprised at you. I think you're overcomplicating this either on purpose or you simply can't take a step back and think of a much simpler solution. It's perfectly simple to allow cars to come so far and no further, it doesn't require tracking car registrations or checkpoints! Just close parts of roads to cars (i.e. I heard Bachelors Walk mentioned), close a few bridges to cars (i.e. O'Connell bridge), like I said, not rocket science. You could even do it by designating these areas as bus lanes only for a trial period.
Of course some will suggest that parking in Jervis Street and walking across to Grafton Street is too much effort.

 

[odyssey06]

Odyssey I'm surprised at you. I think you're overcomplicating this either on purpose or you simply can't take a step back and think of a much simpler solution. It's perfectly simple to allow cars to come so far and no further, it doesn't require tracking car registrations or checkpoints! Just close parts of roads to cars (i.e. I heard Bachelors Walk mentioned), close a few bridges to cars (i.e. O'Connell bridge), like I said, not rocket science. You could even do it by designating these areas as bus lanes only for a trial period.
Of course some will suggest that parking in Jervis Street and walking across to Grafton Street is too much effort.

Nope, some solutions are simple because they are simplistic.
So you're not just stopping cars from going through the city centre, you're cutting off access to parts of the city from some suburbs.
That's not the same thing at all and disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Do you really think people buying a lot of items are going to park in Jervis and walk to Grafton Street?

 

[odyssey06]

I hardly think someone from finglas looking to shop in Dundrum wants to drive there via the quays and Pearse street

Apparently if you are from Finglas you shouldn't be looking to shop in Grafton street or Stephens Green.