Dublin City Centre - Car Restrictions

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Fortune said:
But as a retailer, most of you revenue is coming from people who don't drive. There's no way of increasing the number of drivers; there's no room for them.
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It’s not about increasing them, it’s about preserving them.

The data tells us that, although the majority of customers travel by public transport, which is stating the blindingly obvious, the car drivers are much bigger spenders per head.

The retailers’ legitimate fear is that those people will simply go to Dundrum.
 
time to plan said:
It is not proven what would happen if cars were banned....
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Are you actually serious?

People use their cars to transport both people and goods. If they go into town in their car, but various mid size to larger items, they put them in the boot of their car, or the back seat. They don't want to (or may not be able to) carry the goods to the bus stop, the train station, or put them in a small basket on the front of a bike.

Many city centre retailers are already under server pressure from online competition, who don't have to pay high rates, property prices, sales staff etc. This plan is going to kill them off, completely!
 
Towger said:
. However, the Public Sector stopped it getting implemented. Most of the cars and parking within the city centre (between the canals) are Public Sector employees.
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I think eamon Ryan trying to open this up again, charging for public sector parking spaces. However this time he let the cat out of the bag when he said sure most of them re only working 2 days a week in office so no longer need them. I doubt that went down well down the zoom calls
 
MrEarl said:
Are you actually serious?

People use their cars to transport both people and goods. If they go into town in their car, but various mid size to larger items, they put them in the boot of their car, or the back seat. They don't want to (or may not be able to) carry the goods to the bus stop, the train station, or put them in a small basket on the front of a bike.

Many city centre retailers are already under server pressure from online competition, who don't have to pay high rates, property prices, sales staff etc. This plan is going to kill them off, completely!
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Some business will be lost. Some will be gained. I don't know how it will balance out. And I have no idea how you can tell that many city centre retailers will be killed off completely.

In terms of the plan, it's hard to see how it will stop people driving into the very reasonably priced Jervis Shopping Centre car park to go and buy their mid size to larger items from PC World or Arnott's. pop them in the boot, and perhaps enjoy a tasty and nutritious lunch in an independent eatery, and then walk down to the Ha'penny Bridge, cross the river and partake in some pedestrianised shopping around Dublin's vibrant independent shops.

Listening to some people here, it's like the barbarians are at the gate.
 
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MrEarl said:
You must be joking - the (Irish) Greens have proven, over the last few years, that they don't have the ability to think big, nor deliver big - they focus on a new dozen cycle lanes, and growing lettuce in widow boxes, when they should have been building enough wind farms, along the edge of the Atlantic, to power half of Europe!

I could go on, but it's more appropriate to a seperate discussion thread.
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Well you will be delighted to know that in addtion to cycle lanes and lettuce growing, there are other developments which sound more to your taste including:

www.buzz.ie

Four new offshore wind farms get approval from Irish government

Four new offshore wind farms will be built off the coasts of Galway, Wicklow, Dublin Meath and Louth
www.buzz.ie www.buzz.ie

Together, all four farms will provide 3GW of renewable electricity, which is around 36% of Ireland’s electricity based on 2023 consumption levels.
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On the transport side, the DART is finally going to be extended using the new ALSTOM trains which have a battery capacity, removing the need to electrify lines - e.g. to extend the DART from Malahide to Drogheda. Will make it so much easier to get the train into Dublin to shop!
 
MrEarl said:
If they go into town in their car, but various mid size to larger items, they put them in the boot of their car, or the back seat. They don't want to (or may not be able to) carry the goods to the bus stop, the train station, or put them in a small basket on the front of a bike.
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How about the retailers just deliver the products once they have been bought? As they already do in many cases. Then we can have a nice car free city.

Could this be Dublin / Limerick / Cork etc? https://www.politico.eu/article/pontevedra-city-pioneer-europe-car-free-future/
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Which is a strawman argument. Banning cars from the City Centre won’t attract more people. The salient point is that car drivers spend more.
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I'd go in to Dublin more often if there were fewer cars and it was more pleasant to walk around. Dublin is a pain to navigate any great distance on foot, you spend so long waiting at pedestrian crossings that are timed to prioritise the movement of traffic.
 
MrEarl said:
People use their cars to transport both people and goods. If they go into town in their car, but various mid size to larger items,
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Times have changed, people aren't walking out of city centre shops with large bulky items these days. Most bulky items are delivered to the home, or people buy them from an out-of-town retailer where they can easily park at the door. Look at the concentration of retailers selling small high-value items close to the centre and you'll see what sells there.
 
Leo said:
Times have changed, people aren't walking out of city centre shops with large bulky items these days. Most bulky items are delivered to the home, or people buy them from an out-of-town retailer where they can easily park at the door. Look at the concentration of retailers selling small high-value items close to the centre and you'll see what sells there.
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Depends how bulky. I wouldn't collect a fridge, but I walked away with a TV and put it in the car a couple of months ago. Which of course, I could still do in Jervis.
 
Leo said:
I'd go in to Dublin more often if there were fewer cars and it was more pleasant to walk around. Dublin is a pain to navigate any great distance on foot, you spend so long waiting at pedestrian crossings that are timed to prioritise the movement of traffic.
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But would you spend enough additional money with city centre retailers to cancel-out their losses as a result if high-spending car drivers being effectively prohibited.
 
Is the plan for restrictions not to stop through traffic, rather than to eliminate all cars from the city centre? I saw a segment on the news last night about it?

In any case, most retailers in the city centre sell smaller, more portable items, clothing, cosmetics etc. I would bet that for a large population in Dublin the Currys in Jervis is not their nearest or most convenient to get to electric retailer, especially if they have a car. And realistically, how often does someone shop for these large, bulky items in a given year? Enough that they should be prioritised over residents and active travelers?

And true, I often "shop" in person to see, try on or touch things and then order it for delivery at home to save me carrying heavy things around. Did it just this weekend! The nature of shopping has changed dramatically in recent years.

And I strongly suspect that most people walk more steps around Dundrum and Liffey Valley between walking in from the car park and walking around that they would on a public transport trip to the city centre!
 
Gordon Gekko said:
But would you spend enough additional money with city centre retailers to cancel-out their losses as a result if high-spending car drivers being effectively prohibited.
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High spending car drivers are not effectively prohibited. They can either continue to drive to places like Jervis, or they can choose not to drive and come in by other means of transport.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
But would you spend enough additional money with city centre retailers to cancel-out their losses as a result if high-spending car drivers being effectively prohibited.
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The city center is not just for retailers profit. Every decision does not have to be based on whether businesses can survive. As a previous poster has said the proposed change may be bad for some but may be good for other businesses.

But also it might be good for people. People living in the city and people visiting the city.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
But would you spend enough additional money with city centre retailers to cancel-out their losses as a result if high-spending car drivers being effectively prohibited.
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How are they being prohibited?? I think you're making things up now.
 
A pretty simple solution would be for every city centre retailer whose sales revenue has fallen after the new arrangements are implemented to stop paying their business rates (assuming that they can still afford to), while those businesses whose revenue hasn't fallen would continue to pay. Dublin City Council would publish the results of this experiment after 12 months, and the discussion could continue.

It's hard to see how any moderately intelligent Councillor (or better) could argue with such a logical, reasonable and evidence based approach! :p
 
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