Exactly, and a lot of the problems with the existing public transport is down to getting clogged up in traffic. It's often quicker to walk around Dublin than get the bus.
Dublin City Centre - Car Restrictions
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Dr Strangelove
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This is of course true, but doesn’t negate the pressing need for heavy rail passing under the city centre in a tunnel, ideally two of them!
I think carrot and stick are both needed, and ideally Dublin should have a lot more carrot in the form of better public transport and the same amount of stick in the form of engineering cars off the road.
Brussels is a useful counter example. It’s about the same size and density as Dublin and has much better public transport but still gets too much car traffic simply because it’s engineered that way.
Returning to Dublin, the big problem (and not just in relation to traffic management) is a really, really poor quality local authority in the form of Dublin City Council.
Gordon Gekko
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More lies and spin from the Irish Times. That’s not what that shows! People in cars spend 20% because there’s less of them.Yes, the stats show that people who drive spend the least.
Public transport users and walkers ‘spend most in Dublin shops’
Car-based shoppers account for only €1 in every €5 spent in city, NTA research findswww.irishtimes.com
“CAR DRIVERS ARE THE BIGGEST SPENDERS INDIVIDUALLY” being the key line…
My son is going to UCD. The bus takes 52 minutes. He can walk it in 54 minutes. He walks. That's not a good public transport system, not even close.
It takes me 25 minutes to drive to work, 10.5Km, one side of the city to the other. It takes 35 minutes to cycle. It takes 1.5 hours on public transport; a walk, a bus, a train and a walk. Public transport isn't a viable option.
If I was going to the city centre on a week day morning it would take 25 minutes to drive, 20 minutes to cycle and 40 minutes (minimum) to use public transport.
My daughter has been groped and made feel very uncomfortable on the bus. On one occasion she was followed from the bus on her way home.
I don't like SUV's, I think they are dangerous to other road users and environmentally damaging and anyone who has one who doesn't actually need a 4X4 is selfish and ignorant and they should be more heavily taxed but public transport is not a viable alternative to the car in a city and it certainly isn't in rural areas.
Replacing the one person in their car with 60 people in a bus will mean more spent in the city.
time to plan
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Is there any particular cause and effect conclusion you draw from that key line?
Gordon Gekko
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Which is a strawman argument. Banning cars from the City Centre won’t attract more people. The salient point is that car drivers spend more.
Gordon Gekko
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Yes, that shop owners in the city centre will lose out if cars are banned because higher spender punters will go to places like Dundrum.
Banning cars will enable more buses and more people. Shoppers would be able to walk between shopping areas more easily to spend their money.
There is less money coming to retailers from car drivers.
time to plan
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Fortunately cars are not going to be banned.
But in the event of severe restrictions, it's reasonable to assume that some high spending people who would have driven into Dublin to ship would drive elsewhere, some would take public transport in to spend their money, and some additional peiole would be attracted in to shop as it would be a more pleasant experience. Hard to say what the net effect would be.
time to plan
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What is your logic or evidence base for saying that banning cars wouldn't attract more people?
+1
I used to live in a fairly well-off estate in Dublin city centre which was built in the 1980/90s with a driveway for a single car for every house. We were locally serviced by the LUAS, multiple Dublin Bus services (including at least one 24-hour service) and were about 15 minutes by bicycle or 30 minutes walk from O'Connell Street. And yet almost every house had a second car squeezed on to the narrow streets of the estate.
Public transport will never be as individually convenient as private transport and it's likely that everyone would be able to make the case for why they need to be able to traverse the city by car but that just won't work collectively.
They built the Dart, it was a success, transporting thousands of commuters, every day.
They built the Luas, it was a success, again, transporting thousands of commuters, every day.
They deferred Dart Underground, on numerous occasions, dating back over 30 years. There's been nothing but commuter and transport problems along the intend route, throughout that 30 year period.
They've deferred Metro North on numerous occasions, probably dating back over 20 years, at this stage. There's been nothing but commuter and transport problems along the intend route, throughout that 20 year (or more) period.
There's a lesson there, for the clowns that we've empowered, who continue to make one bad decision, after another....
They built the Luas, it was a success, again, transporting thousands of commuters, every day.
They deferred Dart Underground, on numerous occasions, dating back over 30 years. There's been nothing but commuter and transport problems along the intend route, throughout that 30 year period.
They've deferred Metro North on numerous occasions, probably dating back over 20 years, at this stage. There's been nothing but commuter and transport problems along the intend route, throughout that 20 year (or more) period.
There's a lesson there, for the clowns that we've empowered, who continue to make one bad decision, after another....
time to plan
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Unfortunately, rather than listening to the Greens, they listen to a bunch of people who think that the stench of traffic fumes smells of individual liberty and sticking it to the woke anti car brigade.
You must be joking - the (Irish) Greens have proven, over the last few years, that they don't have the ability to think big, nor deliver big - they focus on a new dozen cycle lanes, and growing lettuce in widow boxes, when they should have been building enough wind farms, along the edge of the Atlantic, to power half of Europe!
I could go on, but it's more appropriate to a seperate discussion thread.
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Gordon Gekko
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It doesn’t matter whether it attracts more people! It won’t attract more spending is the key point. If I’m a retailer in the city centre I want car drivers coming in and spending money in my shop because it’s proven that they spend the most. It’s not the case that discouraging cars will put those bigger spenders onto public transport. They won’t come at all.
time to plan
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It is not proven what would happen if cars were banned. I drive into Dublin to shop sometimes. If cars were banned, I would take the train b3cause I like shopping in Dublin.
But as a retailer, most of you revenue is coming from people who don't drive. There's no way of increasing the number of drivers; there's no room for them.
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