I was asking if you would pass a picket that you disagree with or would you support you “comrades” (union speak) right or wrong.
My apologies; I am usually quite careful to use both him/her or gender neutral terms.
Does anyone in the Irish Government (Public Service) actually answer phones
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NoI would not pass a picket line. When you are part of a union, you really not showing "comradeship" if you opt out when something doesn't suit you.
Only once was I ever on strike and that was way way back in 1996 when Ruairi Quinn put an embargo on the Civil Service (without discussing it with the unions). At the time I didn't agree with the action as I could not afford it as a low paid civil servant. The action in this instance was a half days industrial action. While a lot of our colleagues in the same grades as us (who were not members of the union) passed the picket line, there was no reprecussions against them and the office in question was still open for business with no effect on the services provided.
The end result was that the unions neogtiated a cap on numbers which is still in place in a lot of quarters.
Only once was I ever on strike and that was way way back in 1996 when Ruairi Quinn put an embargo on the Civil Service (without discussing it with the unions). At the time I didn't agree with the action as I could not afford it as a low paid civil servant. The action in this instance was a half days industrial action. While a lot of our colleagues in the same grades as us (who were not members of the union) passed the picket line, there was no reprecussions against them and the office in question was still open for business with no effect on the services provided.
The end result was that the unions neogtiated a cap on numbers which is still in place in a lot of quarters.
Thanks for the answer. For my part I would not be part of a union as I Believe that they are a cancer on society and the single biggest threat to the future prosperity of this country so I admit I am biased. That siad I believe in individual choice and individual responsibility so I would pass a picket if I disagreed with the reason for it and I would not pass it if I supported it.
In partial agreement with you, I have sat on Union committee's and realise that they do both good and evil.
It might surprise you but a lot of times they do have the public interest at heart (not all about the members) which I think does reflect their interest in doing a good job. However I have sat on some committees where it has been a power trip with those in positions. But overall I think they are needed to buffer against injustices.
aircobra19
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I can't speak for the whole sector. But I only know of one who was encouraged to leave which they did. I've heard of others being disciplined, but no direct experience of that. Also seen people get moved and retrained, for under performance which seems to work out. Have to say I only seen it happen very rarely in the private sector too.
I agree that it doesn’t happen very often in the private sector but if there is a culture of underperformance in a private company it will eventually go out of business. This is not the case in the public sector.
aircobra19
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Dunno about that. People can hide away in big private companies, and family members are often kept "busy" in the family business, or indeed, dictator style bosses can be highly inefficient, but still muddle along. Probably in every area you get people who aren't very good, but get enough business to stay afloat. Being private sector isn't a
panacea for everything. When
panacea for everything. When
aircobra19
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Dunno about that. People can hide away in big private companies, and family members are often kept "busy" in the family business, or indeed, dictator style bosses can be highly inefficient, but still muddle along. Probably in every area you get people who aren't very good, but get enough business to stay afloat. Being private sector isn't a
panacea for everything. When contracting I saw a lot of very poor performing private companies, because you are often dragged in to firefight some problem.
panacea for everything. When contracting I saw a lot of very poor performing private companies, because you are often dragged in to firefight some problem.
I agree on big companies but most people work for small businesses and lot sof those go bust.
aircobra19
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I've seen a lot of chronic small companies and self employed people who are just woeful. I dunno how they stay in business but they do.
Working hard instead of smart?
aircobra19
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Usually not. Anyway thats making heavy weather of a simple truth. You get people who don't answer phones in the private sector too. Sometimes theres a valid reason, and sacking people isn't always the right solution.
I agree.
Accountability is important though and that has to mean that management has a meaningful sanction against those that can’t and/or won’t do their work. That sanction has to be more than theoretical.
How do we, as a country, get to the stage where we have a lean and accountable public sector? That’s the question that needs to be answered. Blaming the foot solders is too easy and it’s not the root cause (and so will not lead to the correct solution). For what it’s worth I blame bad management, unions that obstruct change and weak government that don’t have the balls to face down the unions who, after all, are only there to represent the interests of their members and not the general good.
aircobra19
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Ditto.
Rather than debating the whole private vs public sector repeatably, I'd much prefer to see debate on reform in public sector in other countries and talk about whats worked and what hasn't. Maybe this should be a new thread though.
[broken link removed]
Rather than debating the whole private vs public sector repeatably, I'd much prefer to see debate on reform in public sector in other countries and talk about whats worked and what hasn't. Maybe this should be a new thread though.
[broken link removed]
)Complainer
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When was the last strike you came across that related to the sacking of an individual?
Don’t obfuscate; you know that’s not what I’m talking about.
Complainer
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I'm struggling to see what you're talking about, other than to put out an unrealistic hypothetical situation and draw conclusions from unrealistic hypothetical answers.
The question is simple; would you pass a picket if you disagreed with the reason it was placed.
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Simplistic, rather than simple. The only answer I can give is 'maybe'.
There may be a case for supporting the collective action of a union, even where I don't agree with the particular issue. I might be looking for support from comrades on the next issue down the line. It's what give the unions collective strength.
There may will be issues that go too far, and that I'd be unable to support. I guess in such circumstances I'd resign from the union as a first step.