Current public sentiment towards the housing market?

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phoenix_n said:
76 Tolka Vale, Glasnevin

Reduced from to [broken link removed]........but will still need to reduce further as one selling for [broken link removed]
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Looks like the first guy is gonna have to reduce further. The one for 325 is now going for 317,500(click above). Thats a 2 bed besides premier square where investors are trying to offload from [broken link removed] to [broken link removed]

Also, this apt for 317 is the first in ages to come into this price category in phibs,drumcondra and glasnevin. The first of many to come......

And some still think we are gonna have a soft landing....

There is going to be a new bidding war. That of lowering your price to attract a buyer......Its happening in some localised areas (above) already.

Probably will read about this in next 4 weeks in the media.
 
Andy Doof said:
Yet there's people here saying the tenants just won't be there yet Calina's happy to rent and probably has a better standard of living as a result (I mean more beer money!)
Maybe anyone not on the merry-go-round now has missed the boat...there'll be mo crash and the last decade's speculators are the century's winners?
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You really have a simplistic way of looking at things don't you? I rent because what I want to buy is not available in the location where I rent. When that changes I will buy. I think you'll find most people who have severe doubts about the property market have doubts about its sustainability at current levels. When those levels correct (if - just in case you're going to be pedantic) you will find that they will reconsider the situation.

As for renting in the long term, in this country it is not an option at all, because the legislation, while much improved lately, still compares rather badly to other, more civilised nations where I have also rented such as France, Germany and Belgium.

The reason speculation became so rampant here is because many speculators behave as though they have few if any obligations. Not being allowed to end Part VI tenancies for reason of sale would have slowed things up quite a bit.
 
phoenix_n said:
Looks like the first guy is gonna have to reduce further. The one for 325 is now going for 317,500(click above). Thats a 2 bed besides premier square where investors are trying to offload from [broken link removed] to [broken link removed]

Also, this apt for 317 is the first in ages to come into this price category in phibs,drumcondra and glasnevin.

And some still think we are gonna have a soft landing....

There is going to be a new bidding war. That of lowering your price to attract a buyer......Its happening in some localised areas (above) already.

Probably will read about this in next 4 weeks in media.
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Isn't it stretching things a little to call that Glasnevin? I would have thought you were into Finglas at that point...
 
Calina said:
You really have a simplistic way of looking at things don't you? I rent because what I want to buy is not available in the location where I rent. When that changes I will buy. I think you'll find most people who have severe doubts about the property market have doubts about its sustainability at current levels. When those levels correct (if - just in case you're going to be pedantic) you will find that they will reconsider the situation.

As for renting in the long term, in this country it is not an option at all, because the legislation, while much improved lately, still compares rather badly to other, more civilised nations where I have also rented such as France, Germany and Belgium.

The reason speculation became so rampant here is because many speculators behave as though they have few if any obligations. Not being allowed to end Part VI tenancies for reason of sale would have slowed things up quite a bit.
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I don't actually
 
partisan said:
Taking decisive action to get involved, involves taking risks
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Once again - you don't have to take risks to get "involved".

Property is a disaster zone but there are other investments that are far less risky providing a better return.
 
"How can they justify their wage expectations when I can hire a senior programmer in India for $25 a day?" was one of his comments.



I'm not sure this is true. ... Salary's for programmers in India are near to what are obtainable here...
 
Calina said:
Isn't it stretching things a little to call that Glasnevin? I would have thought you were into Finglas at that point...
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Its the address on myhome and was how they were advertisd. But of course its finglas. Its why buyers are going to get burned. In a weakening market you look at the weak parts first which show the first strains of the bubble bursting.

I am pointing out something here what you will read in the papers in... ,about, a month.
 
topman said:
I'm not sure this is true. ... Salary's for programmers in India are near to what are obtainable here...
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I very much doubt this figure is wrong. There were several other people there including the head of the Irish branch of the IGDA. Nobody disagreed with his statement.
 
topman said:
"How can they justify their wage expectations when I can hire a senior programmer in India for $25 a day?" was one of his comments.



I'm not sure this is true. ... Salary's for programmers in India are near to what are obtainable here...
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Programmers in India are betwen $15 and $20 / hour. That's on contract - full time they're even cheaper.
I didn't know they could be hired for $25/day though.
 
whathome said:
Exactly. Also, with equity investments if you allow a sufficient margin of safety between the price you pay and the intrinsic value of the business then risk is minimal. Essentially you are paying €1 for €1.50 of value.
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Intrinsic Value valuations...that's very Warren Buffet of you!

Firefly.
 
whathome said:
Once again - you don't have to take risks to get "involved".

Property is a disaster zone but there are other investments that are far less risky providing a better return.
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What you're actually saying is people have made the most spectacular gains on property in the last decade, but we in bearsaskaboutmoney.com think that those days are gone.
Care to name some of these "far less risky investments providing a better return"?
 
whathome said:
Programmers in India are betwen $15 and $20 / hour. That's on contract - full time they're even cheaper.
I didn't know they could be hired for $25/day though.
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Maybe he was exaggerating for effect - although several people mentioned a price war having broken out between Eastern Europe, Ukraine and India which has led to huge price reductions of contracts.

Typical programmer salary in India is about $8k-$10k pa, far below what is on offer here. We cannot compete with India on price but there seemed to be a concern that we had dropped behind on quality too.
 
room305 said:
I very much doubt this figure is wrong. There were several other people there including the head of the Irish branch of the IGDA. Nobody disagreed with his statement.
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This is off topic but a look at Monster India suggests that the figure is stretching it a little. I'm looking at senior programming positions for the equivalent of 40K sterling which is a bit more than 25 dollars a day.

Basic programming jobs are around 11K - 12K sterling, which is, admittedly less than here. On the other hand, salaries can be justified on the high cost of living here. I find that people who have loads of money tend to forget that living on 20K if you don't live at home can be tough enough in this country.

That being said, as a former migrant who's lived in a bundle of countries I would always advise someone to rent for the first year anyway.
 
Andy Doof said:
My experience is those predicting a crash don't seem to provide any evidence.
If they do, you can't disagree. If you say why you believe there'll be a soft landing you get shot to pieces.
It's all speculation...and if all you bears really truly believed you'd be selling all your houses and renting right now
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I have sold my PPR to rent. There is plenty of examples here on why the crash/slowdown is coming - but some bears have families etc. - therefore not as easy to be as spontanious. I have secured what I consider to be v.strong money , happy to rent for a year or 2 (& save !)- then reassess.
May buy in Ireland when the dust settles - may emmigrate....

Your argument seems very agressive/ill thought out at times.... however , if I sell up and you hold out , one of us will have bragging rights sooner or later !

Best of luck anyway !:)
 
Calina said:
This is off topic but a look at Monster India suggests that the figure is stretching it a little. I'm looking at senior programming positions for the equivalent of 40K sterling which is a bit more than 25 dollars a day.
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As I said, they may have been exaggerating slightly for effect. They had no problem paying high wages to Irish workers but were upset that they still couldn't find graduates and senior programmers of sufficient quality even when offering very competitive salaries. They still had to recruit from abroad and this seems to be pretty common with many IT companies - recruit the cream from abroad who are attracted by the high wages on offer here.

This is very tough for Irish programmers to compete with - they need to either drop their salary expectations (tough when the salaries on offer relative to other Irish workers are pretty low) or increase their skills.

As an outlook for our knowledge economy their comments had a decidedly gloomy feel.
 
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