Current public sentiment towards the housing market?

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Andy Doof said:
Last time I looked is was neither immoral or illegal to buy an investment property.
And we've also got to remember when it's your home "value" goes out the window...you want it, you want it
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Realistically speaking, the issue for me is that a lot of people are not being homes, they are buying first foot on the ladder type places which they don't expect to live in for longer than two or three years because of course they will trade up.

There are numerous references to a figure suggesting that 40% of newly built properties bought last year were built by investors. While that's not actually immoral, you'd have to question a situation where the people who want to buy houses to live in are priced out of a market where almost half the properties being bought are bought people who don't need them. As for the unoccupied figures it would appear that we're building a lot of houses to satisfy demand which is not based on demand to occupy. That's a bit skewed.

Most of what we're building of late is tailored more towards the short term "few years and we'll trade up" and investor market, rather than on long term planning. I don't think that's good morally and I suspect that there are a lot of new apartment blocks which won't see the end of their 99 year leases.
 
Duplex said:
Just thinking how could we keep the bubble inflated? I suppose that the government could issue a statement asking 'investors' to stop selling up as it is causing house price inflation to drop. Or maybe we could ask the MNC's to pay us more money compared to our counterparts in other countries. We could ask the Hedge Funds to accept Irish Mortgage Backed Securities at lower yields or the EU to bung us a bit a cash ta keep tings ticking over.
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here's a few ideas

Higher CGT on investment properties owned less than X years, this will slow down the rush of investors heading for the exit.
Bigger grants to FTBs.
Increase stamp duty bands again.
Buy up all the empty housing as "affordable housing", and knock some of it down for being "unsafe".
Tax overseas property invetments to the hilt, stop that nasty outpouring of money.
Guarantee rental yields for investors by topping up everyone's rent to maintian a 5% yeild on all properties. (Aint gonna happen ;))

I feel so dirty for thinking this way! ;)
 
Open_Window said:
I accounted for that with the "but to let" reference.



Cause they is as silly as people who pay over 400K for a 1 bed with a 100% over a zillion years.

If people are happy to throw, brun & genrally waste money by al means but they distort the market ;)
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You're thinking along the lines of - "I think like this so everyone else will too". I tend to agree with your view, it doesn't matter much to me either.
But the level of finish in a house makes a huge difference in the asking price, whether that includes furniture or not. So it must matter to a lot of people out there. That's how all those folks on property ladder make their money.
 
DeBarr said:
Speaking as a recent investor (18 months ago) I will certainly be hanging on to mine irrespective of the market trends. I didn't view capital appreciation as the driver for buying an investment property. I see it as "one of the eggs" in my investment portfolio for the longer term (20 years). I have young kids and would hope that my initial investment (about 20K) will contribute to their future when they need it but I am not solely relying on it in that regard.
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I respect the long view, and understnad that markets rise over the long term. However investing now is causing the detrimental impoverishment of the current generations ( I would include myself in that one) and thus could upset your 20 year plan.

In fact becasue of the acitons of speculation, Ireland my not be a great place to live in 20 years from now, by that time the bubble could have wrecked so much havoc that your children may not even be able to stay here and live and in the mean time your job may have been threatened becasue of the destablisation nature of single mindedness of "investment" its sound nice but is a dangerous game and we are starting to the see the beginning of it now.

What if the Government decided in sudden hast to limit due to national crisis (the enviroment is the only issue at the end of the day) 1 prime residence per person and or family. Its not a crazy notion, in many ways its sensible if you want a balanced non boom & bust economy that is economically & enviroemtally stable, doens't mean we can't trade for other goods.

How are your many properties soec out for the upcomming energy ratings? This could sway sentiment in any of your investments.

Anyways I think we are seeing the crux of the problem here, home owning & investing in proeperty can essentially never mix thus you will have boom & bust cycles.

THere is only one remedy.
 
whizzbang said:
here's a few ideas

Higher CGT on investment properties owned less than X years, this will slow down the rush of investors heading for the exit.
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Not fair on investors to just change the rules like this. Besides, won't happen cos those that can make these changes have huge interest in investment property.

whizzbang said:
Bigger grants to FTBs.
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I favour incentivising builders with the strategic aim of increasing supply, rather than giving state money directly to the FTB (and ultimately the builder's back pocket anyway). Giving grants to FTBs will increase the amount of money in the market thereby increasing prices - the aim should be to increase the supply. The supply issue only needs to be addressed by government policy once there is a clear shortage of housing. This is not the case currently - therefore there is no need for grants or any more incentive schemes. We have achieved what we set out to achieve (in terms of increasing supply), albeit in a very poor manner.

whizzbang said:
Increase stamp duty bands again.
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Perhaps, I favour stamp duty over a property tax - if you can afford a house, you can afford to make some contribution to the state. I personally think the UK stamp duty rates are quite good!

whizzbang said:
Buy up all the empty housing as "affordable housing", and knock some of it down for being "unsafe".
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No! I fundamentally disagree with the whole idea of buying half-built developments from developers. Why should the taxpayer bail out developers because they failed to see oversupply coming their way? Very dodgy stuff these deals between local councils and developers in the name of "affordable housing". Local councils are just not accountable and have proven their incompetence in dealing with planning in Ireland - why should we trust them to manage the affordable housing scheme?

whizzbang said:
Tax overseas property invetments to the hilt, stop that nasty outpouring of money.
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Dividends from overseas property investments brings money into the country as well you know. You can't stop money flowing abroad - it's a free market economy we live in. In fact, it's impossible to restrict private individuals/companies from conducting their business where they choose.

whizzbang said:
Guarantee rental yields for investors by topping up everyone's rent to maintian a 5% yeild on all properties. (Aint gonna happen ;))

I feel so dirty for thinking this way! ;)
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You're living in cloud cuckoo land... (No wait, aren't we all?)
 
CelloPoint said:
You're living in cloud cuckoo land... (No wait, aren't we all?)
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hey, it was just a creative exercise on "how could we maintain the bubble" ;) not expecting any of this to happen!

what crazy things do you think the goverment might try to maintain the hysteria?
 
There's nothing wrong with enjoying the finer things in life or aspiring to them!
Levying a higher rate of capital gains tax on short term specualtors is an idea. Penalising those investing abroad is a nonsense
 
I meant most taximen have a chip on their shoulder...whether you fall into that category remains to be seen but dismissing PAYE workers earning 40K a year while you gossip at the rank with some socialist ar..hole isn't a great start.
 
13 Clonmore Court.
Reduced from 390K(my records no history cache) to [broken link removed]
 
whizzbang said:
here's a few ideas

Higher CGT on investment properties owned less than X years, this will slow down the rush of investors heading for the exit.
Bigger grants to FTBs.
Increase stamp duty bands again.
Buy up all the empty housing as "affordable housing", and knock some of it down for being "unsafe".
Tax overseas property invetments to the hilt, stop that nasty outpouring of money.
Guarantee rental yields for investors by topping up everyone's rent to maintian a 5% yeild on all properties. (Aint gonna happen ;))

I feel so dirty for thinking this way! ;)
Click to expand...


Here's a visual for efforts such as these:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6089/1833/1600/June6_2005MMM.jpg
 
Duplex said:
And American homes are half the price of Irish homes and are on average considerably larger. :confused:
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Did you not know that its different over here and we have fantastic demographics and a sound economy that doesn't rely on FDI ;)
 
phoenix_n said:
13 Clonmore Court.
Reduced from 390K(my records no history cache) to [broken link removed]
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Below the 381k (3%) Stamp Duty Threshold for FTB.

  • I wonder if these Stamp Duty Thresholds will start to drag properties down below them in the near to medium term?
  • Will we start seeing mid priced 340-360k places heading to below 317k also?
  • Will we start seing low 400k properties heading below 381k (like the above)?
 
partisan said:
And one more thing --> back then everyone was bearish and saying the market was going to crash (at least all us potential ftb's were). We hung on David McWilliams every word. The Nirvana of cheap housing and high wages was just around the corner - in 2001 prices even fell 10%. Look where we are now...
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Its important to note that the 2001, 10% drop episode is often referred to as the "soft landing" in vested circles and such media coverage. Now however they talk (wish) of a 2nd soft landing (yet don't clarify that point), but you can't have 1 boom, 2 soft landings and no crash.... oh but its different now .......C'mon!!! :mad:
 
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