H
Harrogate
Guest
Yes ,and if the year-on-year figures go negative you'll get the vested interests ssying how much prices have risen over 5 years or 10...as well as saying it's an opportunity to buy..
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Yes ,and if the year-on-year figures go negative you'll get the vested interests ssying how much prices have risen over 5 years or 10...as well as saying it's an opportunity to buy..
That's just amazing. It really makes you wonder why people get into property investment, what's their goal?
He's got 2.55m worth of property generating just 3.6% net yield and he wants to wash away his gains by releasing equity? Surely the idea should be to either a) eventually own all (or enough) of the properties outright so that the rent provides you with a regular monthly cashflow in retirement or b) sell up, bank almost €1m and invest elsewhere in order to generate monthly cashflow.
Just looking at his rent-roll, I'd imagine its only just about paying the mortgages anyway.
As for the 33% every 5 years prediction.... surely he can't expect any market to behave in such a linear fashion. What happens if it rises 300% in 10 years, and only 2% over the next 5 years????
S
Sidewinder
Guest
And he seems to be expecting 100K per annum in MEW? Every year from mow till he shuffles off? I'd bet most of those mortgages are IO too, and possibly he is actually subsidising his tenants overall. And he's looking to MEW his best-performing assets. Leaving him with a junk portfolio. WTF?
It looks like the guy doesn't have much of a clue about finance or investment (only property, because it always goes up), yet the bank have allowed him to build up a modest property empire. This dude is most likely going to end up badly burned...
T
thewatcher
Guest
He's done well all the same up to this point,it just shows that anyone that hit their 30's (with a half decent job i presume) in the Ireland of the 1990's could make a fortune even when they didn't know what they were at,it's a pity i was still in school back then
.Don't think we'll ever see all these factors come together again.It also shows the reckless overlending by the banks in true contrast,the chap believes property never goes down so he will be crucified in a bust as he is leveraged so high and he won't have been looking out for the signs to make a quick exit.I'm sure he's not the only one out there,so what are the banks going to do with all these "investment properties" they have mortgages on in a crash ?
O
Open_Window
Guest
Ahh, this reminds me of a great PR campaign run by SHarewatch.com, pre stock bubble. To get punters to sign up for a new online share dealing service.
Sharewatch.com gave you a notional 100K to go play with on the FTSE 250 & 100. The purpose as to give you a feel of their online trading engine, handons. I spent about a 3months on it (in dial up days, i know I know..).
If I remember there was a few grand in real money as a prize given to the best trader at the end. ( I was close to the top at one stage, very close, oh i could almost touch the #1 !!!, just one more trade God! PLEASE!)
Well not having much of a clue about stock but fancying my chances I signed up and starting spending like there was no tomorrow (that was yet to come).
So I spread bet (well I believe thats what I did...) buying shares across the board, it was a common sense approach. Full well knowing that shares go up and down. I managed to gain when I lost usually always, if I was treading water, janey, I can't remember.
Now after 3 months I think I had managed to make about €16,000 on top of my starting 100K. Notional of course.
Not bad for 3 months work sitting on the old scratcher (this is the the bit were you should resist flipping from "hang on I think I could do this for real....", which I managed to do, since having cash in those days saw to it, some things still haven't changed )
Whoa, what a a trip down memory lane. Oh it was all a game a bit of fun. A little like on of those dream you have, you're rich and then you wake, still thinking .. "what will I spend that pot of gold on... DOH!".
Pity about people who did it for real. It got nasty a year or so later if any one remembers ([broken link removed].
Yea, some things never change.
Ouch!
Sharewatch.com gave you a notional 100K to go play with on the FTSE 250 & 100. The purpose as to give you a feel of their online trading engine, handons. I spent about a 3months on it (in dial up days, i know I know..).
If I remember there was a few grand in real money as a prize given to the best trader at the end. ( I was close to the top at one stage, very close, oh i could almost touch the #1 !!!, just one more trade God! PLEASE!)
Well not having much of a clue about stock but fancying my chances I signed up and starting spending like there was no tomorrow (that was yet to come).
So I spread bet (well I believe thats what I did...) buying shares across the board, it was a common sense approach. Full well knowing that shares go up and down. I managed to gain when I lost usually always, if I was treading water, janey, I can't remember.
Now after 3 months I think I had managed to make about €16,000 on top of my starting 100K. Notional of course.
Not bad for 3 months work sitting on the old scratcher (this is the the bit were you should resist flipping from "hang on I think I could do this for real....", which I managed to do, since having cash in those days saw to it, some things still haven't changed
)Whoa, what a a trip down memory lane. Oh it was all a game a bit of fun. A little like on of those dream you have, you're rich and then you wake, still thinking .. "what will I spend that pot of gold on... DOH!".
Pity about people who did it for real. It got nasty a year or so later if any one remembers
([broken link removed].Yea, some things never change.
Ouch!
J
JayDub
Guest
The graph on the above link could look the same as the Irish property market graph in a couple of years.Pity about people who did it for real. It got nasty a year or so later if any one remembers
J
JayDub
Guest
Go the link below and substitute Florida and America with Ireland, substitute Americans with Irish and the 1920's with 1990's, what comes to mind...
http://www.stock-market-crash.net/florida.htm
http://www.stock-market-crash.net/florida.htm
I think desperation is already starting to creep in.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1706228&issue_id=14768
They seem to be frantic for buyers.
My basic premise is that not that stamp duty is the problem but that house prices are the problem. Whether they like it, a correction is necessary.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1706228&issue_id=14768
They seem to be frantic for buyers.
My basic premise is that not that stamp duty is the problem but that house prices are the problem. Whether they like it, a correction is necessary.
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The PDs were supposed to be about supporting business and making the economy more competitive.
Yet the comments on stamp duty showing an amazing lack of basic understanding of Irelands finances. Cut stamp duty and either income tax rates have to go up by a few % or corporate tax rates have to go up significantly...... towards 20%. Ref Davys report this week.
We are going to build enough houses for c 250,000 people this year - when will politicians stand up and say there will be more houses than people in Ireland in a few years instead of ramping up the panic in order to win votes.
PDs would be better off reading K barringtons column in the SBP today- no relation etc
The PDs were supposed to be about supporting business and making the economy more competitive.
Yet the comments on stamp duty showing an amazing lack of basic understanding of Irelands finances. Cut stamp duty and either income tax rates have to go up by a few % or corporate tax rates have to go up significantly...... towards 20%. Ref Davys report this week.
We are going to build enough houses for c 250,000 people this year - when will politicians stand up and say there will be more houses than people in Ireland in a few years instead of ramping up the panic in order to win votes.
PDs would be better off reading K barringtons column in the SBP today- no relation etc
Here's the [broken link removed]
Well at least one of these individuals is sufficiently in contact with reality to be having sleepless nights. Does anyone here think the Irish property situation will encounter the perfidious 'chain' phenomenon where each seller is dependant on successful completion of the selling-on of their buyer's PPR...........or are sellers (whether upgraders or investors) almost exclusively dependant on FTB's? If the latter then the death-throes of the property market can - surely - go on for a considerable period of time as developers and financial institutions continue to stimulate confidence and demand by throwing in gifts such as paying legal fees etc?
An interesting story about how the government plans on raising tax take if Stamp Duty is abolished.
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
Hmmmmmmmmmm...
That plan has a certain elegance. Continue to encourage long distance commuting by tinkering with stamp duty and recover the money lost to the exchequer by fining parents speeding home to see their children for a few short minutes before they go to bed.
O
Open_Window
Guest
Hang on a sec!
This is a political bombshell, I am not koking here at all.
I want to know who
Its also interesting to note that as far as Mr Ricketts is concerned
Thankfully for us Mr Ricketts has made his comments from the relative comfort & saftey of the UK and probably is not liable to any Irish Libel laws (which I am not familiar)
I think we need to see a statement on this issue right away form the PDs, since they have thrown it into the public arena and it can only be the PD's who have spoken to
1) Who/What dept spoke to Tele-Traffic
2) Who/What dept has commissioned this "new system"
3) The timeline of such enquiries.
4) Who made the decision to plan for a "Revenue" orientated "traffic camera"
set-up which is contrary to public road safety.
5) Why has Mr Rickkets been led to believe that the Irish Government mad e apromise that future Government policy is to reduce stamp Duty. This is merely an off the cuff remark in the early hey days of McDowells Primacy as PD leader, a junior party who could easily be left out of Government tomorrow if that was the wish of Bertie. Has this the blessing of FF?
I am sure there are more questions, please post up similar points that need to be clarified.
Lets get some answers. I'm off to email the reporter and such.
Extra comment....
So we have private UK companies already in the know when it comes to future Irish tax policy!
I believe this goes against the remit of the constitution, they are for the improvement of public road safety and not a mere revenue generating scheme.
Another exmaple of the currents Governments smoke & mirros approach with lashing and lashing of spin.
This is a political bombshell, I am not koking here at all.
I want to know who
are in the Irish Government who Mr Ricketts spoke to and I want to know right now. As it seems the nature of these comments the intention & content of dailouge is clear.
Its also interesting to note that as far as Mr Ricketts is concerned
Thankfully for us Mr Ricketts has made his comments from the relative comfort & saftey of the UK and probably is not liable to any Irish Libel laws (which I am not familiar)
I think we need to see a statement on this issue right away form the PDs, since they have thrown it into the public arena and it can only be the PD's who have spoken to
1) Who/What dept spoke to Tele-Traffic
2) Who/What dept has commissioned this "new system"
3) The timeline of such enquiries.
4) Who made the decision to plan for a "Revenue" orientated "traffic camera"
set-up which is contrary to public road safety.
5) Why has Mr Rickkets been led to believe that the Irish Government mad e apromise that future Government policy is to reduce stamp Duty. This is merely an off the cuff remark in the early hey days of McDowells Primacy as PD leader, a junior party who could easily be left out of Government tomorrow if that was the wish of Bertie. Has this the blessing of FF?
I am sure there are more questions, please post up similar points that need to be clarified.
Lets get some answers. I'm off to email the reporter and such.
Extra comment....
So we have private UK companies already in the know when it comes to future Irish tax policy!
I believe this goes against the remit of the constitution, they are for the improvement of public road safety and not a mere revenue generating scheme.
Another exmaple of the currents Governments smoke & mirros approach with lashing and lashing of spin.
T
thewatcher
Guest
Yea right,that might work in a country with 56million people,but not here.
For a start your not going to get any money out of our foreign registered friends or the 100,000 uninsured drivers on the road.
The fact that you get points with every speeding fine means to make up that kind of revenue you'd have to put half the country off the road.
Might sort out the Gridlock thought !
For a start your not going to get any money out of our foreign registered friends or the 100,000 uninsured drivers on the road.
The fact that you get points with every speeding fine means to make up that kind of revenue you'd have to put half the country off the road.
Might sort out the Gridlock thought !
Must admit I was a little shocked that a UK business man seems to know more about Irish political decisions behind the scenes than even our own journalists here.
Not a speeder and not a FF voter so not suprised at all (beyond caring) by let more signs of corruption and self interest at the highest levels any more, hoping to vote this shower out come election day.
For the record am totally against stamp duty abolition :-
1) Prices will rise to make up the shortfall amount
2) All the public will pay for the developers bonanza - through higher taxes elsewhere- this hurts ALL lower income earners, not only the ones rich enough to be able to afford a first time mortgage of 300K + !!
3) The rich benifit most - they get the greatest savings
I wonder what the Irish "new system to make up that [Stamp Duty] revenue" entails..
Duplex may have been joking,
Not a speeder and not a FF voter so not suprised at all (beyond caring) by let more signs of corruption and self interest at the highest levels any more, hoping to vote this shower out come election day.
For the record am totally against stamp duty abolition :-
1) Prices will rise to make up the shortfall amount
2) All the public will pay for the developers bonanza - through higher taxes elsewhere- this hurts ALL lower income earners, not only the ones rich enough to be able to afford a first time mortgage of 300K + !!
3) The rich benifit most - they get the greatest savings
I wonder what the Irish "new system to make up that [Stamp Duty] revenue" entails..
Duplex may have been joking,
but wouldn't suprise me at all given this governments attitude if there was an element of truth.
S
Sidewinder
Guest
Open_Window: Yer absolutely right, these are questions that need answered immediately. I've shamelessly plagiarised your post above on a couple of other boards on the Interwoogie to get more exposure to the scandal. Hope you don't mind
The questions need to be answered yes - but you can't be sure that this guy is, strictly speaking, telling the truth either. The remit of the cameras is not to be revenue generating. They will probably wind up being revenue generating knowing this country - but their primary remit is as a deterrant, and if they work as such, they will not work as a revenue generation tool.
On the other hand, examination of rentals/BTLs/stamp duty evasion will probably be a much bigger revenue generator than the speedcams will when the State realises it needs money due to a fall of in stamp duty. And that fall off will happen as the number and value of house sales starts to fall. That has little to do with any election promise.
On the other hand, examination of rentals/BTLs/stamp duty evasion will probably be a much bigger revenue generator than the speedcams will when the State realises it needs money due to a fall of in stamp duty. And that fall off will happen as the number and value of house sales starts to fall. That has little to do with any election promise.
As reported in the Sindo per Patrick Honohan of World Bank
Irish credit institutions have recently become net importers of funds to Irish residents on a huge scale: 41pc of GDP by the end of 2005. This has changed with astonishing speed - up from about 10pc at end-2003.
IMO there will be no repossessions problem because the banks know foreign banks will stop lending if they think there is any problem. Hence there will be loads of mortgage holidays, conversion to IO etc - anything to stop having to describe the mortgage as a bad debt
Irish credit institutions have recently become net importers of funds to Irish residents on a huge scale: 41pc of GDP by the end of 2005. This has changed with astonishing speed - up from about 10pc at end-2003.
IMO there will be no repossessions problem because the banks know foreign banks will stop lending if they think there is any problem. Hence there will be loads of mortgage holidays, conversion to IO etc - anything to stop having to describe the mortgage as a bad debt
O
Open_Window
Guest
Open_Window: Yer absolutely right, these are questions that need answered immediately. I've shamelessly plagiarized your post above on a couple of other boards on the Interwoogie to get more exposure to the scandal. Hope you don't mind
Cool Sidewinder, as long as you linked and/or credited as such thats cool.
Yea I don't think anyone has quite grasped what has just happened. What seems like a realtively controversial topic but one that would probably fade off the radar in a few days is explosive in the most extreme.
A UK company has already developed a "new system", so it must be paid for surely or invoiced as such with costs agreed already!!!!
That system is geared to making "revenue" and its no secret. Its now in the public sphere not via a leak but a honest admission via the spokesperson of a UK company (Mr Ricketts) charges with delivery (as a sub contractor).
Who has must have been told by whomever in the Irish Government its to offset the apparent tax revenue loss becasue of the imminent abolition of any stamp duty via a claw back in active "revenue" generation via a new system of speed cameras optimized to do the job as efficiently as possible.
This is NUTS! How the Hell can a subcontractor know so much about the inner working of Government never mind the scandalous way it is being used against the public who are paying for the bloody things in the first place (whether they want it or not!).
Have you posted it onto politics.ie
Man this is massive, the PDs have been caught red handed.
Its hilarious how it has happened.
Perhpas we are offf topic here so maybe we need to move respective posot to a new topic or area?? I have no idea how big this BB is I am only a newbie here as such.
HAve you read this, I am not so confident that this man is fibbing seems to be a rather candid admission,
I agree there, I personally think the Irish GOvernment has lost billion in potentially taxable Income.
Its the biggest balck economy in the Irish state after drugs I honestly recokon.
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