C02 of one beef dinner in comparison to a flight.

Betsy Og

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I did not go to Trinity, if you heard my accent (dripping with peat and cow manure) you'd know I didn't go to Trinity. :D

But I bear Trinity no ill will and recall they made some great advances with battery technology in the last 6 months - most of the talk we re smartphone application but I guess all that should seep into car tech in due course. On that note I wouldn't mind checking out Formula E...
 

Purple

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I'd put good money on any major breakthroughs on battery technology not coming out of Irish Universities.
 

Purple

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How d'ya like these apples?

Yea, that is Science Foundation Ireland funding research which originated in Drexel University on the proviso that an Irish University gets to join in. MXenes were discovered in Drexel in 2011. It's their baby.
So, they are helping to develop someone else's breakthrough. :p
 

RichInSpirit

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I heard a discussion this morning on local radio about CO2 and methane emissions from bovines and other ruminants. They belch a lot of greenhouse gases.
But there are trials into feeding a small proportion of seaweed to ruminants in their diet to stop their emissions of methane and CO2. They mentioned researchers in Australia are working on it.
 

Purple

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According to forecasts Data Centres will be using as much electricity as a million homes by 2027 (31% of our total current consumption).
Meat Production globally consumes over 80% of arable land but contributes less than 20% of global calories. The meat consumed by the average American requires over a million litres of water to produce. Meat Production causes more pollution than all forms of transport globally.

Just two examples of how we are having the wrong conversations about climate change. Don't bother with the electric car and take all the holidays you want, just stop eating meat if you want to help the environment.
 

cremeegg

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Meat Production causes more pollution than all forms of transport globally.

and take all the holidays you want, just stop eating meat if you want to help the environment.
Is the carbon foot print of a years meat consumption comparable to the carbon foot print of (say a 3 hour) flight.

I understood that the flight was significantly higher
 

Purple

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Is the carbon foot print of a years meat consumption comparable to the carbon foot print of (say a 3 hour) flight.

I understood that the flight was significantly higher
Possibly but there's more to Climate change than Carbon; meat production produces vastly more effluent than humans. When 25% of the world's rivers don't reach the sea anymore we really need to look at what we are doing. The carbon footprint of beef has to include the large proportion of their diet that comes from feed (soy etc.) that is imported from the USA and further afield.
The average CO2 emission per passenger mile for aircrafts is actually about 50% lower than for cars. Source
 

Betsy Og

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Grass fed beef in Ireland is v efficient, water use not significant (no irrigation of crops). What about the CO2 taken in grass & tress on farmland? - what's the full equation in an Irish agri context?

So all beef is not the same. If you burn the rainforest and irrigate Maize then big problems. If cattle graze grass and eat silage, I'm not sure its that bad. Obv dietary additions to cut methane belched would be further help & we should invest in that research. Much of Irish land not suitable for commerical tillage (soil quality, drainage etc.)

Am all on board for electric cars etc (if I could afford), not sure the quantities of lithium required can be mined in an environmentally sensitive way...but I'm sure Richard Bruton has it all worked out.... A big win with EVs is air pollution and noise pollution cut significantly, esp in urban environments. I don't agree with the zero sum game "sure the pollution is just displaced" arguments - some electricity is renewable, anything creating C02 in a generating station can feasibly be monitored and minimised - and is not being emmitted at head height of smallies.

I'd have no issue (after a few years adoption notice) with a London style pollution levy (or even congestion charges for all cars) for all major urban centres PROVIDED they make available sufficient Park N Ride facilities.
 

Purple

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Grass fed beef in Ireland is v efficient, water use not significant (no irrigation of crops). What about the CO2 taken in grass & tress on farmland? - what's the full equation in an Irish agri context?

So all beef is not the same. If you burn the rainforest and irrigate Maize then big problems. If cattle graze grass and eat silage, I'm not sure its that bad. Obv dietary additions to cut methane belched would be further help & we should invest in that research. Much of Irish land not suitable for commerical tillage (soil quality, drainage etc.)
The graph on this page shows that European beef production is far less environmentally damaging than most other parts of the world. The myth that Irish beef is grass fed does give a false impression that it is all clean and green. In reality a great deal of their winter feed is imported.

In order to reduce environmental damage globally the EU should adopt lower environmental standards are increase agricultural production generally. What we are doing now is just outsourcing our pollution.
 

Peanuts20

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I read somewhere recently that 30 minutes watching Netflix is the equivalent of a 4 mile drive in a diesal car in terms of enviromental damage. Just a thought for those planning on binging on the Crown over the weekend :)
 

Betsy Og

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In reality a great deal of their winter feed is imported.
I wouldn't say a great deal, I know some grain is imported to make nuts/meal, but that would only be like a supplement - maybe 5% of what they are consuming, so the other 95% is silage. Imports of hay tend to happen after a very wet Summer, when you hear media reports of a "fodder crisis" - every 3 or 4 years given the stocking intensities seem to have gone up. A question for Mairead Lavery or the likes.
 

Purple

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I wouldn't say a great deal, I know some grain is imported to make nuts/meal, but that would only be like a supplement - maybe 5% of what they are consuming, so the other 95% is silage. Imports of hay tend to happen after a very wet Summer, when you hear media reports of a "fodder crisis" - every 3 or 4 years given the stocking intensities seem to have gone up. A question for Mairead Lavery or the likes.
ABout 80% of their diet is grass. The rest is winter feed which is approved but is all imported.
 

Purple

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Imports of hay tend to happen after a very wet Summer, when you hear media reports of a "fodder crisis" - every 3 or 4 years given the stocking intensities seem to have gone up. A question for Mairead Lavery or the likes.
Farmers know that if they run out they can just stick their hand further into the pockets of their neighbours (the taxpayer) so they don't bother keeping sufficient stocks of fodder.
 

cremeegg

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I read somewhere recently that 30 minutes watching Netflix is the equivalent of a 4 mile drive in a diesal car in terms of enviromental damage. Just a thought for those planning on binging on the Crown over the weekend :)
seems unlikely
 

Peanuts20

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seems unlikely
There's been a study done and when you think about all the energy data centres use......... for example, Amazon's proposed new data centre in Mulhuddert is forecast to use 4%+ of Ireland energy demand when fully working

 

odyssey06

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There's been a study done and when you think about all the energy data centres use......... for example, Amazon's proposed new data centre in Mulhuddert is forecast to use 4%+ of Ireland energy demand when fully working
Relative to the number of jobs associated with that that is an astonishing amount of energy use.
How many farmers \ cows or workers driving to work would that equate to?

If we have to 'ration' our energy and emissions then 4% for an enterprise like this does not seem to make sense, given that it is I presume going to be powered by non-renewables? And even if powered by non-renewables, we could have allocated that energy to support wider economic purposes.
 

Betsy Og

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Relative to the number of jobs associated with that that is an astonishing amount of energy use.
How many farmers \ cows or workers driving to work would that equate to?

If we have to 'ration' our energy and emissions then 4% for an enterprise like this does not seem to make sense, given that it is I presume going to be powered by non-renewables? And even if powered by non-renewables, we could have allocated that energy to support wider economic purposes.
I wonder can battery technology be applied - i.e. the problem with electricity generation is that it must meet peak demand, but you cannot stop and start it with the flick of a switch (ironically enough). So as the generation continues through the night when low demand, could Amazon be charging its batteries?, and use them for the rest of the day or at least for peak 6-9pm? If so then while it'd consume a lot it might not necessarily require much more generation of electricity.
 

odyssey06

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I wonder can battery technology be applied - i.e. the problem with electricity generation is that it must meet peak demand, but you cannot stop and start it with the flick of a switch (ironically enough). So as the generation continues through the night when low demand, could Amazon be charging its batteries?, and use them for the rest of the day or at least for peak 6-9pm? If so then while it'd consume a lot it might not necessarily require much more generation of electricity.
That might help to manage demand, but 4% of electricity is still 4% of electricity.
I imagine if such tech comes in together with smart meter peak charging, a lot of use will switch to what is now 'low' demand such as electric vehicle charging and would have the capacity therefore to exceed renewable capacity.
Also, there is no reason at present for Amazon to consider batteries - might be more one for the grid as a whole to resolve.
 
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