Budget win for pensioners as Heather Humphreys seeks €15 a week pension increase, while pushing back on Jobseeker’s rise

Hello,

I think the starting point is with a form of means testing, for anyone looking for a pension increase.

As an interim measure, let's help the elderly who need help, but not those who don't.

To keep things simple, in the shorter term, the elderly could make an annual self declaration as to their income and personal assets (excl. their personal residence). Anyone up to certain, specified, limits, gets the additional payment, but the others don't.

That could be an interim solution for say the next 10-years, while better longer term arrangements are put in place.

Ultimately, the plan would be to freeze all state pensions, with people getting plenty of lead in time, to start making their own arrangements.
 
MrEarl said:
Hello,

I think the starting point is with a form of means testing, for anyone looking for a pension increase.
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This is what we are heading for and along with AE will reduce help reduce the government's pension costs.
The Australian system take both income and assets into account:
aware.com.au

Government Age Pension eligibility

There are three criteria you need to meet. You’re eligible if you’re 65-67 years, an Australian resident, and pass an income and assets test.
aware.com.au
 
Bronte said:
And it will work. Though I don’t begrudge the grey vote getting extra in their pension because many are afraid to put on their heat in winter. The solution to the pensions crisis has to be solved by sorting it out now with the younger working population.
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Why are they afraid?...Mostly irrational, whilst the cost of heating isn't that expensive, considering most of them have v little outgoings.
 
Bronte said:
That’s very derogatory of older people.
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As a pensioner I quite agree , thankfully I’m seething at such disrespect from an Airbnb apartment in the Plaza Mayor in Salamanca .
Unfortunately the Paddy Power app doesn’t work here so my constant battle with them will have to await my return bolstered by additional funds from the forthcoming budget .
Now I do think the State old age Pension should be means tested but terms like blue rinse , silver surfers etc make me feel a little less convinced of that view !
 
Towger said:
This is what we are heading for and along with AE will reduce help reduce the government's pension costs.
The Australian system take both income and assets into account:
aware.com.au

Government Age Pension eligibility

There are three criteria you need to meet. You’re eligible if you’re 65-67 years, an Australian resident, and pass an income and assets test.
aware.com.au
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There is no social insurance pension in AUS.

Their Age Pension is a social assistance pension, like our means-tested non-con SP.

Given that our social insurance pension is decades old, and is broadly popular, with wide political support, there is absolutely no sign of it being abolished.
 
Protocol said:
There is no social insurance pension in AUS.

Their Age Pension is a social assistance pension, like our means-tested non-con SP.

Given that our social insurance pension is decades old, and is broadly popular, with wide political support, there is absolutely no sign of it being abolished.
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When times get hard it can force change in the system. It would not be a popular change, but a change forced on the government. With an aging population and not enough taxes coming cuts may have to be made. An obvious choose is paying as a reduced SPC to those who have other sources of income, or are sitting on large assets. We already have this with the means test on Medical Cards for OAPs.
As posted above many elderly dont heat the house because of the cost, my father is in this camp. It is not that he could not afford to to turn on the heating, it is against 'his own religion' to do so. A bit of heat on in the kitchen and electric blanket in the bed is more than good enough. Turning on the heating would be liable to give him a hart attack!
 
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Changing the contributory pension into some sort of means tested pension is a sure way for any government to lose the next possible election. Most likely any efforts to go down that road will bring down the government long before any election due to a back bencher revolt.
There are also EU laws at play here which would not allow such a move.
The whole idea is a non starter and any discussion about it is useless.
The contributory pension is an insurance. People paid into it for years. So let them enjoy the fruit of their labour!
 
november16 said:
It appears though that the rhetoric is Grays against Millennials or GenZ and that the younger working people whose demographic will be much lesser, will be paying for the Gray's Pension and keeping them in their nursing homes entirely as they dribble towards dementia. Did they pay anything towards their pensions, saving, investments, at all at all.
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They actually paid very little. The pension was smaller and people died younger so the cost model was different.
Bronte said:
And it will work. Though I don’t begrudge the grey vote getting extra in their pension because many are afraid to put on their heat in winter. The solution to the pensions crisis has to be solved by sorting it out now with the younger working population.
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The pension model we have is unsustainable. It is not unreasonable to ask people to be retired for the same proportion of their lives as their patents. Since people are living longer that means they should be working longer.

Roro999 said:
Whatever they give will be pretty much eroded for those retirees who can still afford the health insurance increases.
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The massively subsidised health insurance cost?
 
Purple said:
They actually paid very little. The pension was smaller and people died younger so the cost model was different.
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I have a vague recollection of their being a large increase in the pension rate at some point in the last 20 years. Possibly by FF, just before an election.
 
Sophrosyne said:
Isn't the PRSI contribution rate being increased gradually?
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Yes, 0.1% a year starting this month (I think). We need to find a new equilibrium which is sustainable. This will require a combination of higher PRSI & Lower Benefits (later retirement age).

Unfortunately we’re going with - higher taxes on current working population to retain the unsustainable benefits for the current retirees. So this generation of workers can have the double whammy of higher taxes and reduced benefits in future!

No alternative though sadly due to the previous debacle of trying to raise retirement age to a sustainable level.
 
clinteastwood said:
Why are they afraid?...Mostly irrational, whilst the cost of heating isn't that expensive, considering most of them have v little outgoings.
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Winter heating fuel allowance kicks in today,still short pants weather, still warm outside. Plenty of cash if one wanted to budget correctly for the winter
 
It is reckoned that by 2028, the PRSI increases will provide an additional 1.6bn per annum to the Social Insurance Fund.
There might be further increases beyond 2028.
 
I think this shouldn’t be subject to political jousting every Budget season.

The Low Pay Commission does an excellent job every year of recommending national minimum wage (NMW) changes to the government. They look at employment, inflation, competitiveness, etc.

Ideally there would be something similar for pensions with the dual mandate of ensuring pension adequacy and sustainability. Government would be free to reject or accept recommendations like with the NMW.
 
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