Brexit

Status
Not open for further replies.
If Ireland's tax rates are no longer acceptable then France should start looking at its own effective tax rates which in many instances are less than Irelands. This just sums up the hypocrisy of our EU neighbours, why Britain could not longer put up with them and why Ireland needs to get better at playing defense and offense in the EU instead of our pathetic attempts to be 'good european's which get us nowhere.
 
Sophrosyne said:
At least the UK can set its own tax rates without them being threatened or dictated by EU "anybodies".
Click to expand...

For a poster with a history of good posts, this is just pathetic.

Ireland is perfectly entitled under EU law to set its own tax rates. It is not unreasonable for our neighbours to say that they feel we are deliberately setting corporate tax rates low to make Ireland more attractive to foreign investment, that if every country followed that route, every country would loose out.

It is illegal under EU law for Ireland to offer tax deals to individual companies. The law should be the same for every company, we are close enough to crony capitalism in this country without special tax deals for individual companies.

Sophrosyne said:
"I do believe that what we have to do in the coming years is to reduce the different gaps in social and tax considerations between member states.”
Click to expand...

That is not an unreasonable policy goal. It will certainly have to be looked at in the context of proposed Eurobonds.
 

Nowhere except the fastest growing economy in Europe, again.

Nowhere except a change from ghost estates and no money for public expenditure, problems of a failing economy, to housing shortages and what to do with the fiscal space, problems of a thriving economy.
 
The Brits still haven't fully engaged with the EU on how they are going to separate their regulatory systems, be it food safety standards, financial regulations or environmental standards. I can see the whole Brexit can being kicked down the road again and again over the coming years. I don't see a complete divorce anytime within the next 10 years.
 
Purple said:
The Brits still haven't fully engaged with the EU on how they are going to separate their regulatory systems, be it food safety standards, financial regulations or environmental standards.
Click to expand...

Not alone are they failing to at least be seen to make progress setting up their own regulatory and standards authorities, they still seem convinced that European standards bodies currently based in the UK (European Medicines Agency & European Banking Authority) should remain based there post-Brexit, and any move from the UK should form part of the negotiations.
 
Looks like a hung parliament in the UK. May has lost her mandate. Odds on another referendum must be shortening...
 
Firefly said:
Looks like a hung parliament in the UK. May has lost her mandate. Odds on another referendum must be shortening...
Click to expand...

Or another election. Or Conservatives being in hock to the Ulster Unionists... so much uncertainty

Lesson to politicians, don't call an election when the public don't want one.
 
odyssey06 said:
Or another election. Or Conservatives being in hock to the Ulster Unionists... so much uncertainty

Lesson to politicians, don't call an election when the public don't want one.
Click to expand...

What about SF and their 7 (?) seats - they could stir things up too.
 
Firefly said:
Looks like a hung parliament in the UK. May has lost her mandate. Odds on another referendum must be shortening...
Click to expand...
No way whatsoever. DUP & May have already agreed a Government (took our lot months). The DUP are instinctively possibly even more Brexit than UKIP (Treaty of Rome and all that).

This is not a good result for ROI. The DUP have paid a certain lip service to no hard border but the reality is that hard border defines them, given a chance they'd probably build a wall.

But watch for sneaky ways in which they will try and stab ROI. For example they will most likely look for a big farmer subsidy post Brexit. This would be a big win-win for them, good for their constituency and very bad for ROI.
 
And while I'm on the subject this in every sense was a massive win for the DUP. Following on the triumphalism of SF at the Assembly elections (only 1,000 votes behind DUP) and with talk of a United Ireland Referendum, this was in effect a proxy UIR, a real Orange/Green bear fight. First casualties were the "moderate" parties who were wiped out but the clear winner was Orange in the shape of the DUP who have restored normal service in terms of lead in votes. As an enormous bonus they get a pivotal role at Westminster.

SF will make the most of their three gains but the reality is they are now on the back foot. Letting devolution happen would be very silly, handing almost complete control to the DUP. They will now have to come off their high horse and do a deal to keep NI executive in place - that is if the DUP still want that!
 
DUP have the upper hand and will suck it to SF and their voters. DUP will never go to the labour side so they are a sure bet. Business as usual but no hard Brexit.
 

I would disagree with this analysis. The Brexit process is a shambles, has been from day 1. Firstly, the PM campaigned to Remain in the EU. Then, following the result she set out to get the best deal for Britain. She set out her plan, sought a renewed and strengthened mandate and didn't get it!
The reality is, the Tories, DUP, SF, Irish government, EU Commission are all on record as wanting a 'frictionless' or as soft as border as possible for Ireland. If they all want it, and they are the decision makers, then a soft border it will have to be - and as a consequence, we are looking at a very soft Brexit.
Germany and France have indicated possible rule changes to the Treaties. I suspect restrictions on immigration where the immigrant does not have a job offer may be a carrot. There is precedent when Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU, for a number of years restrictions on free movement were in place.

Further to political status in Ireland. It should be noted that SF has a TD and MP on each side of all border counties. When you think about it, out of 32 Irish counties, the union with Britain is only reflected in 3 of those counties.
 
Last edited:
Firefly said:
Looks like a hung parliament in the UK. May has lost her mandate. Odds on another referendum must be shortening...
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly. We are back to square one. What is Brexit?
Certainly not what May outlined last March, or may be it is? Who knows?
But outside the soundbites of 'frictionless' borders and immigration control, there hasn't been one single scrap of detail of how any of this is to work. Its a shambles.
May is cooked goose!
 
B/S what exactly in the analysis do you disagree with?

Possibly you are disagreeing with my earlier assertion that the DUP are closet hard border junkies, which I admit is a tad controversial.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
B/S what exactly in the analysis do you disagree with?

Possibly you are disagreeing with my earlier assertion that the DUP are closet hard border junkies, which I admit is a tad controversial.
Click to expand...

I don't see it as a massive win for the DUP. Certainly the dice would appear to have fallen kindly for them. But the overall Unionist vote continues to decline.
As far as a proxy UI vote, it is the DUP that is running scared of a border poll. For sure, such a poll if held today would carry the status quo. The issue the DUP have with a border poll is that if one were held, they would have no option then to recognise such polls a the means to determining the future of NI. If they accept the result of such a poll today (because it would be in their favour) then would then have to accept the result of such a poll in the future if it ever went against them. That is their fear. They believe the sovereignty of NI lies with the British monarch, not with the people. That is why they are against a border poll.
And while the DUP may never agree to a border poll, there is a strong case now I believe to bring the matter to the courts for a decision. The British government is legally bound to facilitate such a poll if there are reasonable grounds to suggest there is a need for one. SF hold 7 Westminister seats, in assembly elections, they are 1 seat behind and 1,000 votes behind.
The conditions for a border poll are emerging fast, in my opinion.
 
I am presuming, possibly unfairly, that you want to believe this narrative. A few numbers. In the Assembly elections DUP got 225k to SF 224k a lead of 1k. And boy did SF crow about it. I know from visiting friends in NI a couple of weeks ago that there was a definite thrill at the possibility of SF beating the DUP this time round - tiocaigh ar la! I presume across the divide this thrill was matched by a dread. The result. DUP got 292k to SF's 239k a quite massive gap of 53k or nearly 25% more than them from being only neck and neck just a few weeks ago. Ok so you don't see this as a massive win for the DUP, let's not spend pages discussing what constitutes "massive"

The overall pro UI vote is 41.1%, maybe slightly ahead on the Assembly, a bit hard to compare, but a long way short of where a border poll would be justified under the GFA.

Naturally Unionists do not want a Border poll. In fact I believe SF are the only party on the island that do want one. Let's hope this salutary demonstration of Orange voting power, when put to the test, will persuade SF to put that one back in its box.

As an aside, it does amuse me that TM refers to the historic relationship between the DUP and the Tories. The UUP for sure. But it is only a few years since Ian Paisley's creation was toxic to all main stream parties.
 
Last edited:
Duke of Marmalade said:
Ok so you don't see this as a massive win for the DUP, let's not spend pages discussing what constitutes "massive"
Click to expand...

Agreed. I do think there is a big difference between first-past-the-post and PR. Accepting a UI referendum would be a straight Y/N and currently in favour of the status quo.

Duke of Marmalade said:
The overall pro UI vote is 41.1%, maybe slightly ahead on the Assembly, a bit hard to compare, but a long way short of where a border poll would be justified under the GFA.
Click to expand...

Well that's for legal argument. There is no explicit level of support outlined - how could there be? We can only know the explicit level of support for or against a UI after a referendum.

Duke of Marmalade said:
Naturally Unionists do not want a Border poll.
Click to expand...

Why?

Duke of Marmalade said:
In fact I believe SF are the only party on the island that do want one.
Click to expand...

Actually, all parties in the Dail plus SDLP want a UI. Not only that, under the Constitution, which affords their authority to govern in the first place, there is an article declaring the firm will to unite all of the people of Ireland

Duke of Marmalade said:
Let's hope this salutary demonstration of Orange voting power, when put to the test, will persuade SF to put that one back in its box.
Click to expand...

Why?
I can confirm that SF will continue to pursue a border poll. Regardless of the result from such a poll, the principle of deciding the future of NI through the will of the Irish people, and not at the behest of the British monarch, will be established.
This is the DUPs Achilles heel. SF will continue to drill away at it, through the courts if necessary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Menu
Log in
Register