The threat to this is a collective decision of the indebted not to play ball. But this is as unlikely as a majority of bitcoin nodes subverting the blockchain.
But there is one debt which is dodgy, I admit. It is the debt owed by the government. The ability of the government to honour its debt in goods and services stems from its ability to raise revenues from the economy. The unprecedentedly easy monetary policy does place this in some doubt.
Good - because the former isn't an example of intrinsic value and the latter seems to be something you just thought up.us note I do not find this argument that you can pay your taxes with fiat very convincing of its intrinsic value. To me fiat has, let's not call it intrinsic value, but society backing.
I'd be inclined to think that you'd need to keep more of an open mind on the subject, Duke. As distasteful as the notion is to you, don't you think that potentially you would have to grudgingly accept bitcoin is the real deal lets say if it hits a market cap of $2 trillion? If not $2 trillion, what's your number?@WolfeTone Yes I see dangers, but I will never be convinced that bitcoin or any other crypto without intrinsic value is the solution.
On a separate point I see that bitcoin's current woes are being laid almost entirely at Muskie's doing. I did caution against the incredible sensitivity this (once) trillion dollar "asset" has to the whims of one man, and a maverick at that. Hope you resisted the urge to dive in at $60k.
Encouraging debt slavery is part of the economic system we're running with for sure. I don't see that in anyway as positive for society or the environment. The notion is we have to keep chasing this elusive growth to keep the musical chairs going - and that means encouraging irresponsible behaviour re. money management. It has the further knock on effect of encouraging people to be the ultimate consumers buying all manner of horrendous crap. This is the source of the environmental issue - ironic given the current tar and feathering bitcoin is (wrongly) getting on the subject.Duke of Marmalade said:That is in the form of debt. For people to pay off their debts they must earn an economic living i.e. contribute goods and services to society. So fiat is in this sense an IOU between members of society which will be settled in goods and services.
Yeah, that one's not happening. Governments have no notion of paying their debts as we've gone past the point of no return. The system is broken.Duke of Marmalade said:But there is one debt which is dodgy, I admit. It is the debt owed by the government. The ability of the government to honour its debt in goods and services stems from its ability to raise revenues from the economy.
lest you forget the last 150 years aided by fiat money and fractional reserve banking (AND lots of other things of course) has seen the greatest progress in aggregate of human living conditions witnessed since records began.
The notion is we have to keep chasing this elusive growth to keep the musical chairs going - and that means encouraging irresponsible behaviour re. money management. It has the further knock on effect of encouraging people to be the ultimate consumers buying all manner of horrendous crap.
No, quite a long standing theme of mine. Check your files.Good - because the former isn't an example of intrinsic value and the latter seems to be something you just thought up.
When will Stiglitz, Shiller,I'd be inclined to think that you'd need to keep more of an open mind on the subject, Duke. As distasteful as the notion is to you, don't you think that potentially you would have to grudgingly accept bitcoin is the real deal lets say if it hits a market cap of $2 trillion? If not $2 trillion, what's your number?
I would agree that Wolfie probably does not qualify as a more credible circle but he was wild bullish at $60k.Muskies twitter antics are a bit of a nuisance. However, if you dig a bit deeper you'll find that the belief in more credible circles is that the market was well overdue a proper pullback. Any of the previous pullbacks had been bought up in double quick time.
Rare moment of agreement.Otherwise, I agreed with you that a Musk-ism would have an effect on the market BUT only where the Johnny Come Lately's were concerned. Those that have gone the distance in this space didn't sell off on the back of Muskie's mood swing.
That is certainly the gospel according to the cult.Encouraging debt slavery is part of the economic system we're running with for sure. I don't see that in anyway as positive for society or the environment. The notion is we have to keep chasing this elusive growth to keep the musical chairs going - and that means encouraging irresponsible behaviour re. money management. It has the further knock on effect of encouraging people to be the ultimate consumers buying all manner of horrendous crap. This is the source of the environmental issue.
I'm in the Hands Off Bitcoin brigade on this one.- ironic given the current tar and feathering bitcoin is (wrongly) getting on the subject.
Dream on!Yeah, that one's not happening. Governments have no notion of paying their debts as we've gone past the point of no return. The system is broken.
No, quite a long standing theme of mine. Check your files.
That's like a last days of Berlin/Downfall meme then - as the nutty professor has backed himself into a corner and tied himself up in knots. Years later fax machine guy said that he was only joking about the fax machine! Still, maybe Nouriel will be able to dream up something or other.When will Stiglitz, Shiller,Krugman, Merton and of course Professor Roubini change their minds?
Trying to whip up some discontent, Dukey? Sorry but that won't work. Wolfie didn't get out this weekend on the basis of Elon's mood swing. And that's what I was addressing - nothing else.I would agree that Wolfie probably does not qualify as a more credible circle but he was wild bullish at $60k.
And perhaps you don't see it but spilling out this sort of bile demonstrates that you are part of what you're accusing others of being - the 'in god we trust' cult, right?That is certainly the gospel according to the cult.
You mean you really believe that the US (and others) are in a position to pay down their debt? You must be kidding, Dukey. Of course this is being discussed in crypto circles - but it's being discussed beyond crypto circles also. Post #676 - go and listen to Stanley Druckenmiller. The likes of Ray Dalio - who heads up the World's largest hedge fund has also been shouting from the rooftops to anyone prepared to listen over the course of the past year that the system is broken.Dream on!
I kind of don't care how it happened @WolfeTone - the propulsion of billions people out of abject poverty justifies (almost) any end - or as the great pragmatist of the 20th century Deng Xiaoping said - "it doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, if it catches mice it is a good cat". That single idea propelled a billion plus people out of subsistence farming starvation in China when a small bit of capitalism was sprinkled into the socialist soup.Did anything happen 50yrs ago that could propel this rapid expansion in aggregate human living conditions? Would the reserve currency of the world leaving the gold standard have anything to do with it?
I would agree that Wolfie probably does not qualify as a more credible circle but he was wild bullish at $60k.
You don't think that might be a bit of a porkie? Or am I misinterpreting the following quote:Trying to whip up some discontent, Dukey? Sorry but that won't work. Wolfie didn't get out this weekend on the basis of Elon's mood swing. And that's what I was addressing - nothing else.
tecate in #683 said:However, if you dig a bit deeper you'll find that the belief in more credible circles is that the market was well overdue a proper pullback.
Chill out man. Your "bile" about my Big Banking Friends etc. just rolls over me.And perhaps you don't see it but spilling out this sort of bile
I have long learnt to accept that we live in a complex world and best to believe those who are the experts in their field rather than do any armchair theorising. And whilst you cite some very rare contrarian voices I look to the markets for what the experts really think. No sign at all that the markets see any risk of default in the debt of the leading nations and there expectations of inflation stealth are also very muted - I accept that with you living in Dodge that might not be very comforting.You mean you really believe that the US (and others) are in a position to pay down their debt? You must be kidding, Dukey. Of course this is being discussed in crypto circles - but it's being discussed beyond crypto circles also. Post #676 - go and listen to Stanley Druckenmiller. The likes of Ray Dalio - who heads up the World's largest hedge fund has also been shouting from the rooftops to anyone prepared to listen over the course of the past year that the system is broken.
I've no notion what you're running with here? It's very simple. I told you that if Elon wobbled the newcomers would wobble. He did and they did. You'd like to stoke up some sort of discord - when there isn't any. Wolfie had decided to take some profit a few weeks back. Where's the mystery and where's the porkie?You don't think that might be a bit of a porkie? Or am I misinterpreting the following quote:
Wishful thinking your Dukeness. It's not that it doesn't roll over me - it's that its a false narrative that we hear time and time again - when the zealot is your good self. You try and tar and feather and I'll respond accordingly - simple as that.Chill out man. Your "bile" about my Big Banking Friends etc. just rolls over me.
I really can't help you with this - and I don't really care what you want to believe rather than what you're open to understanding. That's an issue for your good self. I mentioned two well placed individuals in the world of investing/finance - you couldn't get better placed. I also provided you with non-bitcoiner examples (because past performance tells us that you'll scream blue murder if they're crypto folk) - albeit both of them have shown an evolution in their thinking with regard to crypto and bitcoin.I have long learnt to accept that we live in a complex world and best to believe those who are the experts in their field rather than do any armchair theorising. And whilst you cite some very rare contrarian voices I look to the markets for what the experts really think. No sign at all that the markets see any risk of default in the debt of the leading nations and there expectations of inflation stealth are also very muted - I accept that with you living in Dodge that might not be very comforting.
I think you do but this is one rabbit hole that I am escaping from.I've no notion what you're running with here?
I kind of don't care how it happened
I'm looking at you @WolfeTone
you couldn't tackle any of my points on merit @WolfeTone.......but could only jokingly ridicule,
I would agree that Wolfie probably does not qualify as a more credible circle
It was a joke @WolfeTone
Here's your answer ->OK I’M BACK - I’m a little divil for this and saw this breaking news TODAY and couldn’t resist:
China has banned financial institutions and payment companies from providing services related to cryptocurrency transactions, and warned investors against speculative crypto trading.
Under the ban, such institutions, including banks and online payments channels, must not offer clients any service involving cryptocurrency, such as registration, trading, clearing and settlement, three industry bodies said in a joint statement on Tuesday.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/...es-barred-cryptocurrency-business-2021-05-18/
It has begun…nature is healing…....but maybe not….lets seeI’ll admit I was wrong it wasn’t the G7 nations to strike first…..but just the second largest economy in the world and second largest by population………but i was close……you think timing of this is a coincidence @tecate @WolfeTone ? I dont believe in these types of coincidences, do you?
You reduce crime, when you reduce the proceeds FROM crime.
The expected value of any crime is as follows:
the nominal value of the ransom/crime MULTIPLIED by % chance you‘ll get caught = expected value of crime
Sorry - but that's a comprehension fail. You can start a facebook, twitter or google clone tomorrow - how do you think you'll get on with that? It's the very same with bitcoin. To unseat it, the challenger will have to be 10x better. You brought up Drukenmiller on the basis that you felt that he suggested that the first project isn't always the one to succeed. Have a look at Business Insider article that covers in detail what he stated and you'll see that he too believes that bitcoin is going to be hard to unseat.Finite supply.....pull the other one.........get yourself the newly minted.......F*ckElon Token...I'm not joking and either are the people who made it.
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