"Belfast" vs "Good Friday" agreement

[WolfeTone]

I presume you would accept that a 50%+1 result could be very destabilising for the whole island whilst a resounding rejection would have the opposite effect. I suspect, but I may be wrong, that you would prefer

50%+1 could be destabilising, but personally I don't so much if backed by a likely resounding 70%+ vote in the much larger Southern electorate.
The message will be clear, to the world over, that Ireland has voted to unify. Even the hardest of loyalist hearts may have to swallow pride.
Whatever destabilising effect (I assume you are talking specifically about outbreak of violence) I cannot see it being sustained unless deliberately and intentionally aided by British State.

In the end, what I prefer is, the right to freely express one's intentions without fear or favour and for everyone to respect the outcome.
Sinister threats of violence are what led to the division of the country in the first place, and the last 100yrs are an example of why not to succumb to such threats ever again.

 

[Betsy Og]

In other news Matt's been givin it the large one, so to speak. Morally corrupt collective.

 

[Purple]

In other news Matt's been givin it the large one, so to speak. Morally corrupt collective.

There's a long tradition of that sort of thing in the Tory Party.

 

[Betsy Og]

Even John and Edwina - just to prove that frightfully dull people can get up to this sort of thing too y'know....

 

[WolfeTone]

Down with this sort of thing.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It is not as much fun 2 metres apart.
Have you seen the video released by The Sun overnight?
Unbelievable. Is he taking the p*ss apologising for not social distancing.
Forget Covid. If anybody had that video public they would be too embarrassed to turn up for work. How can a Minister have any credibility after that?

 

[WolfeTone]

British government to end Troubles era prosecutions

Hardly as a goodwill gesture to the IRA, UDA or UVF?

No, only one one plausible reason - that as the truth of the British State actors involved in murder and cover up in Ireland over 25yrs comes more apparent the preferable option for the British State is to close the book on the period.

Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Dublin, Monaghan, Beltubert, Miami Showband, Reavey Bros, Finucane, Loughinisland...and many others.

 

[Purple]

British government to end Troubles era prosecutions

Hardly as a goodwill gesture to the IRA, UDA or UVF?

No, only one one plausible reason - that as the truth of the British State actors involved in murder and cover up in Ireland over 25yrs comes more apparent the preferable option for the British State is to close the book on the period.

Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Dublin, Monaghan, Beltubert, Miami Showband, Reavey Bros, Finucane, Loughinisland...and many others.

You have to let it go Wolfie. It's in the past. We have to move on. The Brits don't have to acknowledge the people thy killed and the Shinners don't have to condemn the children they murdered. There can be no hierarchy of suffering. The Nuns and the children blown up by the IRA were just as deserving or death as the SAS men that were torn apart by the mob in Belfast.
The children shot by the British Army were just as deserving of death as the IRA men killed in shootouts. Everyone was the same. There was no moral difference between any of them.
The Nordies understand that so we in the Soyth have to do the same.

 

[Betsy Og]

Purple, I hope you didn't dislocate your tongue there planting it so firmly in cheek.

A sad day, if this sticks then it's the final nail in the coffin (pardon the pun) of any hope that families had of justice, and so blatantly done to spare the blushes of the UK government.

To force myself to be optimistic for a moment, does it move the chances of a Truth and Reconciliation Process 1% closer if, basically, anyone ever involved now has an "on the run" letter??

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Dublin, Monaghan, Beltubert, Miami Showband, Reavey Bros, Finucane, Loughinisland...and many others.

(On the Bosnian conflict) The most recent estimates suggest that around 100,000 people were killed during the 3 year war. Over 2.2 million people were displaced. In addition, an estimated 12,000–50,000 women were raped.

Bosnia has a population of 3.3 million. Garret Fitzgerald was oh so right to have been very fearful of a British withdrawal. This does not mean Garret supported Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy or for that matter Internment.
I am sure the Allies of WWII were no saints (e.g. Australians went on a rampage of rape and pillage in Japan after Japan had surrendered). But I am sure glad the Allies won (possibly Wolfie disagrees). How many Allied soldiers were punished for war crimes? And there was no universal amnesty.
Perspective, my dear Wolfie, perspective.

 

[Purple]

Bosnia has a population of 3.3 million. Garret Fitzgerald was oh so right to have been very fearful of a British withdrawal. This does not mean Garret supported Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy or for that matter Internment.
I am sure the Allies of WWII were no saints (e.g. Australians went on a rampage of rape and pillage in Japan after Japan had surrendered). But I am sure glad the Allies won (possibly Wolfie disagrees). How many Allied soldiers were punished for war crimes? And there was no universal amnesty.
Perspective, my dear Wolfie, perspective.

Somewhere between 350,000 (the Russian figure) and a Million (the German figure) German POW's died in the Soviet Union after the Second World War ended. No Soviet faced sanctions for that.
Somewhere between 500,000 and 1,500,000 Algerian civilians and soldiers were killed by the French during Algeria's war of independence in the 1950's and 60's. The Algerians aren't still going on about it.

 

[WolfeTone]

Victims 'let down' over decision to end prosecutions

No consultation with families of victims.

This decision is rejected by all those across political spectrum.

Opposed by Irish government

Rejected by international human rights organisations

A new low in Britain's history of 'governance' of Ireland.

 

[WolfeTone]

Young Ned of the Hill

 

[Purple]

A new low in Britain's history of 'governance' of Ireland.

Really?
Worse than the Siege of Drogheda?
Worse than the Ulster Massacre of 1641? (Actually that one doesn't count as it was Papists killing Proddies).
Worse than the executions during 1798?
Worse than the plantations?
Worse than the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

 

[Purple]

Young Ned of the Hill

Ah the Pogues. I saw them many a time in their prime (I'm still in my prime). The best gigs were in the Olympia. You had to be in the full of your health to jump around up front with all the sweaty culchies.

 

[WolfeTone]

Really?
Worse than the Siege of Drogheda?
Worse than the Ulster Massacre of 1641? (Actually that one doesn't count as it was Papists killing Proddies).
Worse than the executions during 1798?
Worse than the plantations?
Worse than the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

No, just another 'new' low to add to the collection.

 

[Purple]

No, just another 'new' low to add to the collection.

A new low but not a very low low, not by the standards of the low lows they have sunk to in the past. In fact as lows go it went over my head.

 

[WolfeTone]

In fact as lows go it went over my head.

Really?

That after 50yrs since the Troubles started with all the death and carnage I have being listening to righteous great and good about the evil monsters of terrorism.

But now that the light is being shone on the activities of the righteous it is another typical attempted side-step. A 'nothing to see here'. It's nothing short of a Vatican order to absolve all sinners of the crimes of paedophilia and the circle of authority that protected and covered up these crimes for decades.

How convenient.

These people have the legal authority to govern over a part of Ireland, they have no moral authority.
The entire Irish political spectrum, North and South, opposes what these Tories are doing.
And just to recap, the entire Tory mandate in Ireland is zero. Always has been.

In my view what they are doing is effectively opening the door to the next generation of Irish Republican militants.

Shame on them. Unite Ireland.

 

[Purple]

Really?

That after 50yrs since the Troubles started with all the death and carnage I have being listening to righteous great and good about the evil monsters of terrorism.

But now that the light is being shone on the activities of the righteous it is another typical attempted side-step. A 'nothing to see here'. It's nothing short of a Vatican order to absolve all sinners of the crimes of paedophilia and the circle of authority that protected and covered up these crimes for decades.

How convenient.

If I ignore the hyperbole I agree with you but I still don't think it's a new low.

The GFA effectively gave an amnesty anyway so this is just acknowledging that reality. You can't pardon the terrorists and murderers that were caught, which is what prisoner release was, and then go after the ones that weren't caught.

These people have the legal authority to govern over a part of Ireland, they have no moral authority.

Well they were elected to run that country and that's the way democracy works, however despicable the Tories may be.

The entire Irish political spectrum, North and South, opposes what these Tories are doing.
And just to recap, the entire Tory mandate in Ireland is zero. Always has been.

Their Mandate in Northern Ireland, which is part of a different country, is legitimate.

In my view what they are doing is effectively opening the door to the next generation of Irish Republican militants.

Shame on them.

Quite possibly and I agree it is shameful.

Unite Ireland.

...maybe, once the Nordies ditch the tribalism, fix their economy, dial down the bigotry and god-bothering and generally get with the program that this is the 21st century.

 

[WolfeTone]

The GFA effectively gave an amnesty

It gave no such amnesty. Prisoners still have convictions, rightly, recorded against them. They are released from prison under licence.

What the British government is doing is effectively dismissing the rights of victims of their pursuit of justice. Many of whom were never afforded a proper investigation into the deaths of their loved ones in the first place.
And now that a light is being shown on the truth of Britains dirty war in Ireland they are moving to shut down, once more, any chance of the victims getting justice.

They are morally bankrupt. And they have given a shot in the arm to those who see the only way to unite Ireland is to force Britain to withdraw through the gun.

As a side, I see some Tory MPs are pining for the prospect of an English devolved parliament. Forget about Scottish independence, English independence from the UK is the way to bring this wretched British rule in Ireland to an end once and for all.