Another abortion referendum?

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Women have a freedom to travel, and that is what they do when they leave Ireland to have an abortion, it has no bearing on the discussion.
 
MrMan said:
Women have a freedom to travel, and that is what they do when they leave Ireland to have an abortion, it has no bearing on the discussion.
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Well it does have a bearing on the discussion because only women who can afford to travel for an abortion can have a safe one.

It is also hypocritical for people to say that they do not want safe abortion available in this country but they dont mind if women travel. Surely if someone thinks abortion is wrong, its wrong regardless of geography.
 
truthseeker said:
Do you understand biology?.
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No please enlighten us all, and don't spare the details.

truthseeker said:
Women and men have an equal stake in the creation of a pregnancy, an unequal stake in the process of pregnancy and childbirth and an equal financial and moral responsibility to a child if it is born.
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So men should vote on male topics and women to vote on womens only - not very equal.
The choice of termination may not include the male co-creator, (also known as 'the father'- learned that in JC biology btw) but society, including males and females should decide together. Not as independent groups.
Shall we exclude infertile females also?
Or "some" women who cannot fathom why people want children in the first place?
truthseeker said:
Its shocking to think that an adult would not understand these basic facts.
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It's shocking that you resort to this childishness.
 
MrMan said:
Women have a freedom to travel, and that is what they do when they leave Ireland to have an abortion, it has no bearing on the discussion.
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And do you think it's ok that they can travel for abortion?
 
Bronte said:
Yes I'd like society to make the decision but it still needs to be a yes or no for women only.
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It's not going to be a "yes" women can but "no" men can't have a termination vote now is it.

Agree- but you've missed the point that society includes both men and women.

Bronte said:
It is absolutely hypocritical of the Irish people to have voted to allow women to travel for abortion and to have information on abortion but not allow abortion.
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women are free to travel for whatever pupose they wish, as far as I'm aware nobody has recommened some Gestapo like checks as you board.

Bronte said:
If we don't allow abortion then we actually should prevent women travelling to have an abortion.
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Ridiculous. women and men travel for a variety of reasons, some of which are illegal here; trying to curtail this is farcical.
 
If women and men have equal financial and moral responsibility to a child if it is born then why should men have no say in the matter?
The facts of the biology of the matter have little bearing on the moral issue.
I know that you are against late term abortions so can I therefore take it that in your view at some stage the life of the unborn child takes precedence over the woman’s right to choose? If this is the case then the woman’s right to choose is not absolute and the right to life of the child kicks in eventually.



Bronte said:
I wonder how many Irish men have paid for abortions. I wonder how many men would gladly pay for an abortion instead of child support. And no doubt would vote against abortion in Ireland too.
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Bronte, I’m sure you are aware that I have great respect for you but that’s an awful post. You are implying that men would rather kill their unborn child than support it financially. Why is it that women want abortions for the best of reasons but men want them for selfish and hypocritical reasons? Your post is deeply sexist and utterly heartless.



If this is a women’s issue only because they are the ones that carry the children then only fertile women should be allowed to vote.
Using the same logic only people who are net contributors to the exchequer should be allowed to vote on financial and taxation issues and only property owners (local property tax payers) should be allowed to vote on local issues.
I’m against the above because I believe in democracy and the right of all adults in society to decide what sort of society we live in.
 
Bronte said:
I wonder how many Irish men have paid for abortions. I wonder how many men would gladly pay for an abortion instead of child support. And no doubt would vote against abortion in Ireland too.
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I'm not sure what your geting at with this?
I do not doubt that some men would be glad if abortion facilities were available in Ireland, to save face and/or financial support.
Why would you have "No doubt" they'd vote against it then?
 
I've no doubt that is what he said, with or without the link, I wasn't implying you made it up or heard it from your neighbours,daughters husbands dog walker who's sister is a nurse etc etc.

All I would like to wait for is the facts no knee jerk reactions.
I've said before, If a termination could have saved her life, then she should have been permitted to have one.
 

Purple, I do think men should have a say, and I have discussed it further back in the thread, with MrMan and perhaps others - however, practically speaking it is difficult to see how it could be enforced - because of biology.

I mentioned biology because a poster seems to think that unless men have a say over what happens to womens bodies while they are pregnant then men should not support their children - its a ridiculous misogynistic notion that women get no say over their own bodies but men do otherwise they dont pay child support.

As far as I am concerned, the right to life of the child becomes equal when it is no longer dependant on the womens body (I am happy for science/medicine to determine that point).
 

thats not what I said or meant. Have another go.
 

I think you missed the rather obvious point that this question was posed rhetorically.
 
truthseeker said:
As far as I am concerned, the right to life of the child becomes equal when it is no longer dependant on the womens body (I am happy for science/medicine to determine that point).
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Equal to what?
The mother's right to life?
The mother's right to health?
The mother's "right to choose"?
 
T McGibney said:
Given the overall tone of the discussion, and not singling out anyone in particular, I think the thread should now be closed.
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That is the objective of some posters here. They are posting deliberately inflammatory posts in order to get the thread shut down. It is a typical response because some people want all discussion of abortion censored. Not singling out anyone in particular.
 

If you think any post or poster has been "deliberately inflammatory", use the Report Post facility.

I don't think there much evidence here that anyone wants to censor discussion of abortion.

I still think the thread should be closed.
 
truthseeker said:
They are posting deliberately inflammatory posts in order to get the thread shut down.
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When one, misquotes and lables other misogynistic for no valid reason, that too could be deemed inflammatory, but as long as they're on your side of the argument it's ok.

truthseeker said:
It is a typical response because some people want all discussion of abortion censored. Not singling out anyone in particular.
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I don't see any evidence of wanting it censored, can you show me where you've gotten that from?
 
Goodness me Purple I didn't mean to be sexist or heartless. And I certainly do not think that all women want abortions for the best of reasons. There are women who use abortion as a contraception and all sorts of myriad other reasons. I would wish that such abortions didn't have to happen in the first place but that doesn't change the fact that they do. I wish both women and men always used contraception, that contraception was always fail safe, that people would take care, but depending on the circumstances this does not always occur. I also wish every Monday morning so many women didn't go looking for the morning after pill.

And I do think that both women and men would chose abortion for financial reasons. I'm sure there are many Irish couples who have chosen so. I have limited my family partly for financial reasons. I assume most other people do so. And I do not think that men only want abortion for selfish and hypocritical reasons. They do so for many varied reasons. Same as women. Sorry if my post implied otherwise.
 
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