Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of it?

Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Is this basically a strategy to keep Anglo on life support, in order to keep the big two afloat?
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

I think it was the right thing to do but once again the Government does everything in its power to come across as not having a clue. Some of the statements coming out of Cowan and Lenihan beggers belief. "Its business as usual". "The bank is in good stead and solvent". Dear God!

My favourite is the Lenihans excuse on why they won't reveal Anglo's bad loan situation claiming it is "commercially sensitive information". Complete and utter tripe. Every bank is expected to reveal their bad debts. Problem was the market didn't believe Anglo's and they were obviously right not to considering the Government will now not reveal the real figure. Also how can it be commercially sensitive? Is Lenihan saying that Anglo will continue to compete with BOI and AIB? Anglo is finished and as taxpayers we have the right to know what exactly we have signed up for.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

For such an important development I feel some of the early posters were a bit flippant and some comments were appropiate for Letting off Steam. Perhaps that is what they were doing. For my part I have one simple question which is the appoximate range of riske to the taxpayer. I have a sinking feeling it could make our present fiscal problems seem little
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Just looking at market reaction to the move. Irish Sovereign CDS spreads ranging from 265-280bps this morning after closing yesterday evening at 225bps so as expected Ireland is taking a hit. Has anyone read the actual Bill? I am assuming it will be similar to the one used in the UK for Northern Rock and will follow that model
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Carramore said:
Even if such debt were covered by the guarantee scheme, the fact is that none of it matures before September 2010 and so the guarantee will have expired by the time these bond-holders can come looking for their money. Ergo, they are not covered by the scheme
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Em, no.

Now that the government has nationalised Anglo, the debt is due on the government's account.

The other banks have issued a fair amount of debt under the guarantee scheme which all has a due date of before the end of the guarantee. There is also the issue of debt that is due to rollover this year and next year.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

yoganmahew said:
Em, no.

Now that the government has nationalised Anglo, the debt is due on the government's account.

The other banks have issued a fair amount of debt under the guarantee scheme which all has a due date of before the end of the guarantee. There is also the issue of debt that is due to rollover this year and next year.
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Exactly. There is no question of any debt investor of Anglo's taking a hit anymore unless Ireland defaults with the possible exception of any Tier 1 instrument holders.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Is there a legal case here to sue the former directors for breach of fiduciary duty???

I sense shareholders would very much like their pound of flesh.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Getting away from the consequences for the economy etc for a moment, is the general feeling that, barring moral reasons, it is safe/ok to place money in Anglo Savings accounts?

I opened a Premium Demand & Regular Saver in November and was planning(before the announcement) to go into them today to lodge money/start the regular saver working...
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Anglo Irish Chairman O’Connor Says Bank Not Being Wound Down

By Fergal O’Brien

Jan. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Anglo Irish Bank Corp. Chairman Donal O’Connor said the aim of the nationalization is to “preserve” the lender. The bank is not being wound down, O’Connor told shareholders at an extraordinary general meeting in Dublin today.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Does anyone know what is actually happening to the shareholders rights in terms of the ownership of shares. I mean, I am a shareholder and I am wondering if I am treated under current company law rules as having legally disposed of my shares. Does anyone know the answer?
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

I know its been kind of dealt with here already, but just wondering what exactly does nationalisation of Anglo Irish mean for shareholders when the bank is suspended on Stock Exchanges - Does that mean the shareholders effectively have no interest anymore in the bank or that however worthless their shares were previously they are even moreso now?

Also, since we are now all, as taxpayers, effectively shareholders of Anglo Irish, can we expect a full disclosure some time soon of the extent of its lendings and to whom and the security or not of these lendings?

Finally if the Govt does decide (unlikely I would expect) to call in the bank's loans from its major debtors, what is the possibility of them seizing or putting a stay order on their assets, I'm sure Mr Fitzpatrick has a pleasant amount of personal wealth and assets that could be appropropriated to cover some part of his €87 m debts. I imagine that would actually hurt him more than going to jail.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

I heard some government person on the radio (sorry, didn’t catch who it was) saying that one of the reasons for nationalising Anglo Irish was to safeguard the 1500 jobs there. If that’s the reason then it would be far cheaper to just give each employee €2 million and let the bank fail.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Assuming bad debts of €15 billion why did the Government willingly add €3500 for every man, woman and child in the country to the national debt. Why is that money well spent? Is this being done so that loans to Anglo from foreign banks can be repaid?
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

AS Yoga and Sunny said, the main beneficaries of this move are the holders of long term Anglo debt. This now as secure as Irish government debt but with a much higher coupon. Anybody got any idea what it's trading at this AM?
BTW as the SBPost noted Sean Fitz is a big holder.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

tyoung said:
the main beneficaries of this move are the holders of long term Anglo debt.
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Sorry but terms like "tier 1 instrument holders" doesn't mean anything to me.

Who are they? Other Irish Banks or foreign banks or something else?
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

a pedantic point: why is this and the other Anglo threads in this credit crunch forum?

their failure had very little to do with the credit crunch and an awful lot to do with bad management, bad regulation and bad government
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

Kemo Sabi
An old fashioned bank run forced the government's hand.
With regard to the status of the bond holders this is straight from the minister's statement
"Creditors (including bondholders) of Anglo Irish Bank can be assured that it will continue to service its obligations and will repay its debts at maturity."
This is the same as in the US where the main beneficaries of the Freddie Fannie/AIG bailouts have been the bondholders.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

thanks tyoung but my question still stands; this bank's failure was as a result of the collapse of the Irish property bubble not the credit crunch

this was a homegrown disaster and FF, IFSRA and the Central Bank allowed it to happen. I don't like to see askaboutmoney implicitly supporting the lie that this was due to 'international factors beyond our control' by placing the discussion threads in the Credit Crunch forum.

this may seem pedantic but there is a real reason for it per the above.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

I thought one of BL's strangest comments was, when asked why not liquidate Anglo, because that would let debtors off light. First of all I doubt whether that is correct but what a skinny reason for putting the national finances on the line.
 
Re: Anglo Nationalised: what does this mean & what is the significance/consequence of

yoganmahew said:
Em, no.

Now that the government has nationalised Anglo, the debt is due on the government's account.

The other banks have issued a fair amount of debt under the guarantee scheme which all has a due date of before the end of the guarantee. There is also the issue of debt that is due to rollover this year and next year.
Click to expand...

this is in danger of becoming a private argument between myself and yoganmahew. However, there's a little matter of whether or not we as taxpayers can be saved €4.9 billion by getting bond-holders to stump up before we are on the hook.

I still think that my analysis is correct. The fact that the government is now the shareholder does not change the fundamental issue of limited liability. In the precedent of the UK government's nationalisation of Northern Rock, the holders of subordinated bonds are completely exposed.

It appears that both of me and yoganmahew are ignorant of the true situation, are there any financial experts out there who can tell us if the bond-holders are now exposed before the government has to cough up additional money?
 
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