About to pay voluntary UK national insurance contributions

[basilbrush]

An update on my experience:

In the end I decided to just pay UK voluntary national insurance contributions at the Class 3 rate. There was possibly a chance of qualifying for Class 2, but there were also doubts (it wasn't clear whether paying Class S contributions in Ireland due to non-PAYE income met the UK's definition of "self employed") and so I decided to be safe and just go with Class 3. I used Wise to transfer the money. After 9 weeks I hadn't heard anything, so I called them and found out that my contribution was recorded, so their confirmation reply must have been lost in the post. They then immediately offered to start my pension. I thought I would need to fill out a form, but in fact you can do it over the phone. They took some details (such as the IBAN and BIC of the bank account that you want the pension paid into), and said they would backdate it to the date that I paid the voluntary contributions.

All of my dealings were with the International Pensions Centre. I really found that they were a pleasure to talk to. You can be on hold for quite a while, but the people that I eventually got through to were always lovely and very helpful.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

An update on my experience:

In the end I decided to just pay UK voluntary national insurance contributions at the Class 3 rate. There was possibly a chance of qualifying for Class 2, but there were also doubts (it wasn't clear whether paying Class S contributions in Ireland due to non-PAYE income met the UK's definition of "self employed") and so I decided to be safe and just go with Class 3. I used Wise to transfer the money. After 9 weeks I hadn't heard anything, so I called them and found out that my contribution was recorded, so their confirmation reply must have been lost in the post. They then immediately offered to start my pension. I thought I would need to fill out a form, but in fact you can do it over the phone. They took some details (such as the IBAN and BIC of the bank account that you want the pension paid into), and said they would backdate it to the date that I paid the voluntary contributions.

All of my dealings were with the International Pensions Centre. I really found that they were a pleasure to talk to. You can be on hold for quite a while, but the people that I eventually got through to were always lovely and very helpful.

Great news!

Just remember you are liable to income tax on the UK pension if resident in Ireland. People have been caught out by this before and got a nasty surprise!

 

[Chewbacca]

I'm just doing this now, I thought you could only go back 2 years for retrospective contributions and even then it's about £800 a year versus about £150pa when up to date.

I just sent form off a few weeks ago and nothing..... does anyone know if it can be done online or can you follow up via the Government Gateway account, id didn't seem to have an online option and I can imagine a lot of UK HMRC staff working half the week at homes these days.

 

[Chewbacca]

Moved to Ireland from the UK 15 years ago and I've worked in Ireland consistently since then except a period of unemployment in 2009. I have 7 full years NI contributions up to 2005 from employment before moving here, with 15 years missing. I applied to HMRC using form NI38/CF83 and I got a reply to say I can pay class 2 for each each of the missing 15 years, except the period of unemployment in 2009 of which class 3 will apply. Total quote to buy back all 15 years for a little of £2500.00. That'll bring me up to 22 years towards the 35 needed for a full UK state pension. From April 2022, they'll send me an invoice each year to pay class 2 as long as I'm working in Ireland. If I stop working, I need to let them know as it'll be class 3 in that case.

I've got to 2023 to pay voluntary contributions between 2006 and 2016, I then lose them forever. I'm settled in Ireland, so have no plans on moving back to the UK. Now, I know the SP might not be there by the time I reach SPA, but it could be, none of us know for sure.

Based on the facts we have right now, it seems to be a worthwhile investment to make, am I missing something though? From what I've read in previous posts, I should be able to claim both UK and Irish state pensions (based on today's rules of course). I'll also have the expected 40 years contributions in Ireland by the time I hit my early to mid 60s.

Is this too good to be true?

thanks

I was very surprised that you could pay more than 2 years prior I always thought it ha been 6 then reduced to 2? In light of this can anyone confirm the Irish position. Spent about 25 years in UK will voluntary to cover off full pension but can I pay retrospective Irish contributions , worked about 3 years in Ireland prior to going to UK, hope this class as hijacking someone's thread, apologies if it does.

 

[basilbrush]

Which form did you send off a few weeks ago? To find out what voluntary contributions I could pay I called the International Pensions Centre and they sent me an email with the list of years and the cost on the same day. When I sent off the form they attached (it's not the CRF83 one, but a special one for the International Pensions Centre) I didn't hear anything for 9 weeks so called and confirmed that it had been processed.

You can pay quite a few years of UK voluntary contributions in arrears until April next year, at which time I think it reduces to 6 years.

I think you need to have 10 years of contributions in Ireland before you can make Irish voluntary contributions.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

I just sent form off a few weeks ago and nothing.....

Responses can take two months in my experience.

does anyone know if it can be done online or can you follow up via the Government Gateway account, id didn't seem to have an online option

This only works if you have a UK address!

worked about 3 years in Ireland prior to going to UK,

In Ireland can only make voluntary PRSI contributions if you are not covered by a social security regime in another EU member state or the UK, and there is a strict five-year cut-off.

UK rules are much more lax. In general it is far easier to make UK voluntary contributions when returned to Ireland than the other way round.

 

[jfrank]

Responses can take two months in my experience.


This only works if you have a UK address!


In Ireland can only make voluntary PRSI contributions if you are not covered by a social security regime in another EU member state or the UK, and there is a strict five-year cut-off.

UK rules are much more lax. In general it is far easier to make UK voluntary contributions when returned to Ireland than the other way round.

Agreed on all points Coyote!

 

[Peanuts20]

Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS

If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.

I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.

So to update on this, I got approved for Class 2. it's a little more then I anticipated, coming in at £3270 but still a no brainer to be honest. It'll pay for itself in just over a year, assuming I reach retirement

One odd thing that I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light on, the weekly contributions are pretty consistent at £3.15 per week except for part of the period between 2014 and 2016 when they jumped to £15.85 per week. Can anyone shed any light on that?. More curious then anything else.

 

[ATC110]

the weekly contributions are pretty consistent at £3.15 per week except for part of the period between 2014 and 2016 when they jumped to £15.85 per week. Can anyone shed any light on that?. More curious then anything else.

It seems like those years are assessed at the Class 3 rate for whatever reason. I would query this with HMRC.

I only bought back the Class 2 years, and omitted Class 3 years, as I had time to continue making enough VCs on an annual basis up to the maximum period prior to reaching retirement age.

 

[deanpark]

So to update on this, I got approved for Class 2. it's a little more then I anticipated, coming in at £3270 but still a no brainer to be honest. It'll pay for itself in just over a year, assuming I reach retirement

One odd thing that I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light on, the weekly contributions are pretty consistent at £3.15 per week except for part of the period between 2014 and 2016 when they jumped to £15.85 per week. Can anyone shed any light on that?. More curious then anything else.

Was there any change in your work circumstances in RoI? I'm fairly sure you have to be paying Class A PRSI in RoI (maybe fulltime employment too?) to get Class 2. Thats my experience.

I have 18 years banked based on 10 yrs actual UK stamps & 8 years bought @ Class 2 and hope to get around 30 + years worth of UK State pension by the end of my working life (!). I turned down Class 3 due to the cost where I was offered them.

 

[MoneyLar]

Hoping I can tag a question on here... Based on the info on this site (https://www.uspfinancial.ie/uk-state-pension/) there's a suggestion that you can have a 'combined' old and new UK state pension amount payable should you be able to make the contributions?

I appreciate it is probably a nuanced scenario based on age etc but taking my own personal circumstances :

I'm 36, from England and lived there til I was 18 / 22 (went back to England to do summer work sony arguably resident in England then too?) when I came to college in Dublin. I started working in Ireland then in 2012 when I was 26.

I'm looking at the possibility of being able to get 35 years of NI contributions, which I can do based on the website from post 2016 (age 30 to 65 or realistically 70 by the time I get to retirement!!). The link suggests full UK £181 p/w pension.

If I then look at pre 2016 contributions, of which I have 3 purely by virtue of staying on at school in England when 16-18 (2002-04) and the potential to topup some pre 2016 years to qualify for the older version?


Am I completely mad here in thinking I can get the full 181 p/w pension plus some of the other one or is the website author really talking about people who might be coming up to / closer to retirement age who wouldn't be able to work back as far as I can and so might only ever be able to get a % of the new 181 p/w plus be able to add some under the old 30 years NIC rule?

 

[deanpark]

Ups guy will tell you definitively.

 

[Peanuts20]

Was there any change in your work circumstances in RoI? I'm fairly sure you have to be paying Class A PRSI in RoI (maybe fulltime employment too?) to get Class 2. Thats my experience.

I have 18 years banked based on 10 yrs actual UK stamps & 8 years bought @ Class 2 and hope to get around 30 + years worth of UK State pension by the end of my working life (!). I turned down Class 3 due to the cost where I was offered them.

no change over here in my circumstances so it's a question I'll have to ask them

 

[50andOut]

Hoping I can tag a question on here... Based on the info on this site (https://www.uspfinancial.ie/uk-state-pension/) there's a suggestion that you can have a 'combined' old and new UK state pension amount payable should you be able to make the contributions?

I appreciate it is probably a nuanced scenario based on age etc but taking my own personal circumstances :

I'm 36, from England and lived there til I was 18 / 22 (went back to England to do summer work sony arguably resident in England then too?) when I came to college in Dublin. I started working in Ireland then in 2012 when I was 26.

I'm looking at the possibility of being able to get 35 years of NI contributions, which I can do based on the website from post 2016 (age 30 to 65 or realistically 70 by the time I get to retirement!!). The link suggests full UK £181 p/w pension.

If I then look at pre 2016 contributions, of which I have 3 purely by virtue of staying on at school in England when 16-18 (2002-04) and the potential to topup some pre 2016 years to qualify for the older version?


Am I completely mad here in thinking I can get the full 181 p/w pension plus some of the other one or is the website author really talking about people who might be coming up to / closer to retirement age who wouldn't be able to work back as far as I can and so might only ever be able to get a % of the new 181 p/w plus be able to add some under the old 30 years NIC rule?

You are completely mad. Its capped at £185 pw - that site is suggesting there is a weighting of your prsi contributions if you do not have the 35 under the New state pension and will be able to use prsi contribution pre 2016 to get the lessor amnt of the older basic state pension.

However I have not seen any reference to this hybrid rate of payment anywhere in my dealings on this - as per uk revenue:

You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension if you’re:

• man born on or after 6 April 1951
• a woman born on or after 6 April 1953

Register with UK govt gateway and check your own forecast. I would not recommend using any of these so called service providers to check what is a very straightforward process which you do directly with revenue

50+o.

 

[ATC110]

On a related topic, anyone who opted out of SERPS will probably need more than 35 years NI contributions to qualify for the UK state pension at the maximum rate.

 

[MoneyLar]

You are completely mad. Its capped at £185 pw - that site is suggesting there is a weighting of your prsi contributions if you do not have the 35 under the New state pension and will be able to use prsi contribution pre 2016 to get the lessor amnt of the older basic state pension.

However I have not seen any reference to this hybrid rate of payment anywhere in my dealings on this - as per uk revenue:

You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension if you’re:

• man born on or after 6 April 1951
• a woman born on or after 6 April 1953

Register with UK govt gateway and check your own forecast. I would not recommend using any of these so called service providers to check what is a very straightforward process which you do directly with revenue

50+o.

Thanks and from all my reading on the UK sites I didn't come across that hybrid scenario so was confused and thought it was too good to be true.

I don't intend to use the services as have called the future pensions line - I can't register on govuk to see it online as only have my UK passport but no second form of identification to be able to register. The NI line I first spoke to confirmed I had my 3 years from when I was doing my a levels (grants exemptions from NI contributions and counts as my 3 years pension starter) so waiting on the paper form pension forecast.

I assume it will default to class 3 required contributions but sending in the CF83 form today to get put under class 2 for what I hope is at least the years I am working here (the last 10), those going forward and perhaps backdated years from when I was studying here (don't expect to get away with these ones as assume university study doesn't count as NI / PRSI exempt towards pension contributions)

 

[jfrank]

It seems like those years are assessed at the Class 3 rate for whatever reason. I would query this with HMRC.

I only bought back the Class 2 years, and omitted Class 3 years, as I had time to continue making enough VCs on an annual basis up to the maximum period prior to reaching retirement age.

Very sensible idea, max what you can do at Class 2 and ignore the rest.... I am doing that myself!

 

[jfrank]

On a related topic, anyone who opted out of SERPS will probably need more than 35 years NI contributions to qualify for the UK state pension at the maximum rate.

Interesting. I opted out back in the 90s when I was in a DB scheme with my employer. Eventually some years later the DB scheme was would up and my paltry benefit went into a PRB which it now seems is a very inflexible instrument. So, you are saying 35 q/years will not secure me the full standard £185.15pw.... why?

 

[ATC110]

....

 

[ATC110]

Interesting. I opted out back in the 90s when I was in a DB scheme with my employer. Eventually some years later the DB scheme was would up and my paltry benefit went into a PRB which it now seems is a very inflexible instrument. So, you are saying 35 q/years will not secure me the full standard £185.15pw.... why?

SERPS was a top up to the basic state pension. For those who opted out, a proportion of their NI contributions were diverted to the private pension plan that they had to set up therefore creating a shortfall of contributions towards the now flat-rate state pension.

(Detailed explanation in the link below)

In my case I need 37 rather than 35 years to qualify for the maximum state pension.

Your pension forecast can be viewed on the Government Gateway.

State second pension and Serps

Get to grips with how the state second pension worked, how much additional state pension you could get as a result and more on the Serps, S2P and the new state pension.

www.which.co.uk