About to pay voluntary UK national insurance contributions

[NoRegretsCoyote]

@NoRegretsCoyote I'll have to call them again, then!

The NI38 guidance says that you have to be "employed or self-employed abroad" to be able to qualify for the lower-cost Class 2 and they look for details of your self employment. For the years where you weren't in paid employment in Ireland I would say something like "landlord and property management, social insurance on rental income paid at self-employment rates (PRSI Class S)". HMRC might accept this as "self employment" for and let you pay Class 2 for the relevant years.

It might be relevant as well to point them to the answer from the Irish Minister last year that Class S PRSI amounts to compulsory insurance for the purposes of the Bilateral Convention.

Chapter 3 of Part 2 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 (as amended) requires all self-employed workers aged between 16 years and pensionable age (currently 66 years) with income of €5,000 or more per annum to pay social insurance contributions.

The social insurance contributions paid by self-employed workers are categorised as class S.

For the purposes of Articles 8 and 12 of the Convention on Social Security between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland dated 1 February 2019, class S social insurance is compulsory insurance.

I trust that this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.

At very worse HMRC will make you pay at the more expensive Class 3 rate but this is still incredible value and I wouldn't argue too much further.

 

[3CC]

Thanks for pointing this out. I am in a similar situation and so I just read the NI 38 document.

Just one question - the document states:

To qualify for most of the benefits mentioned in this section,
you need to have sufficient NICs on your National Insurance record
for the ‘relevant tax years’.
The relevant tax years are normally the last 2 complete tax years
which precede the benefit year in which you claim benefit

Does this mean that you must have paid NI in the final 2 years prior to retirement in order to qualify for the state pension?

Thanks...

 

[phoenix53]

Moved to Ireland from the UK 15 years ago and I've worked in Ireland consistently since then except a period of unemployment in 2009. I have 7 full years NI contributions up to 2005 from employment before moving here, with 15 years missing. I applied to HMRC using form NI38/CF83 and I got a reply to say I can pay class 2 for each each of the missing 15 years, except the period of unemployment in 2009 of which class 3 will apply. Total quote to buy back all 15 years for a little of £2500.00. That'll bring me up to 22 years towards the 35 needed for a full UK state pension. From April 2022, they'll send me an invoice each year to pay class 2 as long as I'm working in Ireland. If I stop working, I need to let them know as it'll be class 3 in that case.

I've got to 2023 to pay voluntary contributions between 2006 and 2016, I then lose them forever. I'm settled in Ireland, so have no plans on moving back to the UK. Now, I know the SP might not be there by the time I reach SPA, but it could be, none of us know for sure.

Based on the facts we have right now, it seems to be a worthwhile investment to make, am I missing something though? From what I've read in previous posts, I should be able to claim both UK and Irish state pensions (based on today's rules of course). I'll also have the expected 40 years contributions in Ireland by the time I hit my early to mid 60s.

Is this too good to be true?

thanks

HI JSF221, could you let me know how long it took from asking for the quote to receiving it?

Thank you.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

@phoenix53

It took me something like 6 to 8 weeks.

 

[phoenix53]

@phoenix53

It took me something like 6 to 8 weeks.

Thanks

 

[JSF221]

HI JSF221, could you let me know how long it took from asking for the quote to receiving it?

Thank you.

@phoenix53 it was about 6 to 8 weeks for me also. I paid the lump sum and all missing 15 years are now full. I used revolut to transfer the payment. It was all very easy once they confirmed I was eligible to pay. I'll now pay annually moving forward.

 

[Andynb]

i had got one back recently and that took over 20 weeks. I`ve got till April to pay it off, from what the letter states. But then you can set a DD for the years after.

 

[phoenix53]

Thanks. My hubby sent off a request 12 weeks ago, heard nothing yet.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Thanks. My hubby sent off a request 12 weeks ago, heard nothing yet.

You hear of turnaround times of 6-10 weeks. 12 sounds on the long side and it might be worth calling them.

 

[Peanuts20]

Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS

If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.

I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.

 

[jfrank]

Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS

If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.

I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.

£2388.15 and £11986.00 respectively if paid before 5th April 2022. Chances are you will not get approval that fast from HMRC so, you will pay at the rates nominated for 2022/23 and I think that means the total for Class 2 remains the same but the Class 3 total comes to £12,334.40

 

[Lisgoold]

I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.

I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever seen anyone say that. You must have got lucky.

 

[phoenix53]

Currently working through this with HMRC. I was advised yesterday that I need to complete the NI38 form and attach a CV to it for a case worker to review and that it could take up to 16 weeks for them to respond and decide if I am entitled to have to pay Class 2 or 3 NICS

If I end up paying Class 2, then in my case it will cost £2370 for 15 years. For Class 3 it would cost €12000. The increase in pension would be €3736 per year for me so whilst I am obviously hoping it is Class 2, even Class 3 makes financial sense.

I have to say, HMRC are an absolute pleasure to deal with, albeit the waiting time on the phone is a bit long.

Sorry jfrank, I selected a paragraph you wrote by mistake and don't know how to delete the reference

Peanuts 20, do you have a note of the phone number you called the HMRC on? If you do, would you mind sharing?

Thank you.

 

[Peanuts20]

Sorry jfrank, I selected a paragraph you wrote by mistake and don't know how to delete the reference

Peanuts 20, do you have a note of the phone number you called the HMRC on? If you do, would you mind sharing?

Thank you.

HMRC in Newcastle is the starting point to get your state pension forecast. + 44 191 2183600

Once you have that, ring them again and they'll give you the amounts you need to pay and then ask you to contact the NI office on +44 191 203 7010 for next step

 

[Zep240]

Are there any benefits or downsides from paying Class 2 vs Class 3 VIC (aside from the cost) ?

If you qualify for the cheaper Class 2 are there any implications if you intend to retire in Ireland. For example, UK pension will not be credited for the VIC years OR post retirement UK pension is not increased inline with the future UK rate increases.

 

[phoenix53]

HMRC in Newcastle is the starting point to get your state pension forecast. + 44 191 2183600

Once you have that, ring them again and they'll give you the amounts you need to pay and then ask you to contact the NI office on +44 191 203 7010 for next step

Thank you.

He got on to them today and said they were very helpful and very pleasant.

 

[Farma1]

Are there any benefits or downsides from paying Class 2 vs Class 3 VIC (aside from the cost) ?

If you qualify for the cheaper Class 2 are there any implications if you intend to retire in Ireland. For example, UK pension will not be credited for the VIC years OR post retirement UK pension is not increased inline with the future UK rate increases.

Yes there are some differences but as far as Im aware not to pensions - its more the provision of other benefits you get form paying NI. These are covered by your PRSI here hence the UK applies a reduced rate to your NI as you'll be getting reduced benefits in total from the UK. As i say though, i think pension entitlements are identical.

 

[Knowledgequest]

I lived in the UK for 12 years from 1987 to 1999 and according to the HMRC I have 15 years full NI contributions.
My intention is to purchase voluntary years of NI contributions (hopefully Class 2) so I am completing application form CF83. I have a
query regarding question 18 on the form:

Question 18 asks - Are you or will you be working abroad for an employer?

Does this mean are you working abroad for a UK employer ? Do I leave this answer blank and just include a separate detailed list
of all my employers since returning to Ireland or should I enter my current Irish employer's details there ?

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

 

[jfrank]

I lived in the UK for 12 years from 1987 to 1999 and according to the HMRC I have 15 years full NI contributions.
My intention is to purchase voluntary years of NI contributions (hopefully Class 2) so I am completing application form CF83. I have a
query regarding question 18 on the form:

Question 18 asks - Are you or will you be working abroad for an employer?

Does this mean are you working abroad for a UK employer ? Do I leave this answer blank and just include a separate detailed list
of all my employers since returning to Ireland or should I enter my current Irish employer's details there ?

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Leave Q18 blank as I presume you are not working for a UK employer here in Ireland. And yes, add a separate page with your employments in Ireland since you returned including:
- Name/Address of Employer
- Dates from and to for each employment

The basic idea is thet you must show you were in "insured employment abroad (Ireland)" for the years for which you wish to pay Class 2

 

[Knowledgequest]

Leave Q18 blank as I presume you are not working for a UK employer here in Ireland. And yes, add a separate page with your employments in Ireland since you returned including:
- Name/Address of Employer
- Dates from and to for each employment

The basic idea is thet you must show you were in "insured employment abroad (Ireland)" for the years for which you wish to pay Class 2

@jfrank ......Thank you for the clarification.