A turning point. Trump and Brexit

Elac, while I not hugely interested in the semantics, I think most people would say:

Racism - based on colour, implies active hate. What motivates people to physical or verbal attack, graffitti etc. The domain of the scumbag. Largely targeted at Black, Mexican (incl. Central American & Andean peoples), A-rabs (intentional spelling) or Asian persons (both India/Pakistan region and to the east of it).
Xenophobia - literally fear of foreigners, but a catch all for less extreme forms of bias, uneasiness, fear. Would not normally sufficiently motivate to active hate.

So I think the anti-Polish graffiti is an unusually extreme case of Xenophobia, if the Poles were black it would be racism. White on white "racism" does not compute in my simple world.....
 
Hi Betsy Og,

Wow - word for the day.....SEMANTICS :D

So you don't accept the Oxford English definition? Again, that's your prerogative. By the way, I did not introduce this definition into the debate - I have just set out what it says.

My sense, for example, is that Disraeli (former British PM) was being racist when he said:

The Irish hate our order, our civilization, our enterprising industry, our pure religion. This wild, reckless, indolent, uncertain and superstitious race have no sympathy with the English character. Their ideal of human felicity is an alternation of clannish broils and coarse idolatry. Their history describes an unbroken circle of bigotry and blood.

Also, and very seriously, given what you said - do you not consider anti-Semitism a form of racism?
 
Boris Johnson has ruled himself out of the running for next leader of the Conservative Party.

This came after his former supporter, Michael Gove nominated himself. He said Boris "cannot provide the leadership to guide Britain out of the European Union.".

What next?
 
Elacsaplau - you forgot the 18XX reference to go on that quote......

OK the jews, forgot about them. Anti-semitism seems so irrational to me that I dont know where to place it, if you hate Man U with a passion should that be racism too?? Would anti-semitism also apply to people who convert to become jews, or are we keeping it to circular hats and long sidelocks? Overall I'm sick of racism/anti-semitism being thrown at every grumble, you dont like Israel obliterating a civilian neighbourhood, oh you're one of them anti-semites. You'd like it if travellers kept the halting site some way tidy - another "racist".

And what about Roddy Doyle "Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin"... where do you start and end, and what's the point of splitting hairs?, do I really care what the Oxford dictionary says?? (no would be the answer...).
 
elacsaplau said:
My sense, for example, is that Disraeli (former British PM) was being racist when he said:

The Irish hate our order, our civilization, our enterprising industry, our pure religion. This wild, reckless, indolent, uncertain and superstitious race have no sympathy with the English character. Their ideal of human felicity is an alternation of clannish broils and coarse idolatry. Their history describes an unbroken circle of bigotry and blood.
Click to expand...

A strange thing for him to say considering he was of Jewish birth.
... Hard to disagree with him though :D
 
Sophrosyne said:
Boris Johnson has ruled himself out of the running for next leader of the Conservative Party.

This came after his former supporter, Michael Gove nominated himself. He said Boris "cannot provide the leadership to guide Britain out of the European Union.".

What next?
Click to expand...
Wow! Michael Gove, what a weasel, he most definitely ruled himself out during the debate. He was 70/1 this morning on Betfair, now 4/1, I wish he had given me a tip off.:(
 
I'm delighted Boris backed down - he's got Turkish blood in him - you can never trust the Turks. I'd be ok with a little bit of Greek but Turk, no way, like.
 
Seen in letters page a play on PLEBICITE , ie referendum .
A new word.

PLEBICIDE , noun,
Meaning , The self inflicted ruin of a nations prospects or interests via a reckless act of direct democracy.
 
Theresa May, she being a nominal stay advocate, should re-run the referendum since the leave side were clearly sold a pup. If she doesn't then I lose all sympathy for Britain - they have their chance but if they insist on repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot then I guess that's their problem. They will survive, we will survive, but the world will have lost a lot of respect for the modern incarnation of the UK (post Empire, excluding handling of NI etc. etc.).
 
Betsy Og,

It looks like UK has shot Uk in the foot , but its early days.
The EU being unwieldly ,maybe just doesn,t suit Uk.
The question UK has raised , is this,
Do Eu or UK thrive post Brexit? or with luck both will thrive.
With luck (fudges) will be found that suits us all .?.
 
Gerry Canning said:
Betsy Og,

It looks like UK has shot Uk in the foot , but its early days.
The EU being unwieldly ,maybe just doesn,t suit Uk.
The question UK has raised , is this,
Do Eu or UK thrive post Brexit? or with luck both will thrive.
With luck (fudges) will be found that suits us all .?.
Click to expand...
Of course the UK will thrive, its a strong wealthy trading country that has control of its own currency ..
 
Leo said:
Is that really all it takes?
Click to expand...
That and the fact that as a country they can now set the rules to suit themselves...better than having some unelected dictatorial
bureaucrats in Brussels telling you how to run your country!....personally I think they will be just fine into the future.
 
blueband said:
Of course the UK will thrive, its a strong wealthy trading country that has control of its own currency ..
Click to expand...

Who is it going to trade with.

Have they actually started trade negotiations with the US or China, or anyone ?
 
blueband said:
That and the fact that as a country they can now set the rules to suit themselves...better than having some unelected dictatorial
bureaucrats in Brussels telling you how to run your country!....personally I think they will be just fine into the future.
Click to expand...

...........................
Surely this thing about unelected is a tad naiive ?
Any decision of consequence lands right back with each government .
Surely this thing about setting rules to suit yourself is also a tad naiive ?
UK had a strong input into rules , indeed of the 2,500 applied , I believe there was only serious anxst by UK of about 60.

So surely most things were agreed .

...........
cremeegg.
Am with you on this . Methinks Brexit was conceived in haste with nil planning.
£stg is dropping , Ex-chancellor mooted tight times and recession?
Maybe UK are smarter than they are showing us ?
 
blueband said:
That and the fact that as a country they can now set the rules to suit themselves...better than having some unelected dictatorial
bureaucrats in Brussels telling you how to run your country!....personally I think they will be just fine into the future.
Click to expand...

Only if they manage to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, the likes of which no other country has been able to achieve. Are they really going to do much better than a Norway-style deal that still sees them paying into the EU budget and abiding by a lot of rules they no longer have any say over?

It really will be interesting to see what they can achieve, but I don't think there's much appetite within the EU to give them a deal that might encourage others to follow their lead.
 
It's fairly clear now that The Donald is a set up by his golfing pal Bill. He's not even trying to win this thing. Calling Hillary the devil. Claiming the election will be rigged. Supporting Putin on Crimea and Ukraine. etc.
 
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