A turning point. Trump and Brexit

Betsy Og said:
I'll admit I know very little about this (never stopped you before sez you ..) but was joining the Euro of itself the issue or was it bad lending? I know we couldnt mess with interest rates to regulate the economy, but didnt it unlock long term low interest rates which benefited us greatly until we bet the lot on property. So if not in the Euro we could have jacked up interest rates, but in the Euro we could have extricated our heads from where there shouldn't have been and stopped the mania.
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I think you know a lot more about it than most commentators.

The idea has taken hold that the Euro was a mistake. This is nonsense.

It has been a huge success for the stronger eurozone countries and it offered opportunity to escape from the inflation/devaluation cycle for the weaker countries. That Greece failed so spectacularly to grasp that opportunity is not the fault of the euro.

If Ireland had not joined the Euro, we might have escaped the worldwide credit crisis. Yes the independent Irish central bank would have uniquely avoided the mistakes made by everyone else. It would have been prudent and strong enough to avoid the madness. If we hadn't joined the euro the FF government would have pursued a sensible mildly expansionary policy and avoided over reliance on construction. :rolleyes:
 
cremeegg We are straying off topic here, but the correct approach would have been to revert to the position before 1979 a parity link with Sterling. Not quite a monetary union - that as we now know requires a fiscal and political union and even I would be against that;)

This parity link worked well. Ordinary people had confidence in the currency whilst the money changers knew that ultimately it was subject to the risk of the Irish sovereign. Hence the scope for importing credit was reasonably contained. The Euro illusion was that there was no sovereign risk and thus Ireland had in practice access to almost unlimited imported credit. There can be no doubt that Ireland's financial crisis, which in proportionate terms is possibly the worst ever, would have been much less pronounced under sterling.

And then there is the main purpose of a currency link - the rate of exchange for external trade. No matter how much we might try to convince ourselves otherwise the UK is still our dominant trading partner. Sterling is the correct currency for us. The mandarins knew that but they thought the Brits decision was only temporary and so they decided to join up day one without doing the responsible thing and following our neighbour.
 
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England opts out of the EU and within 4 days is kicked out of the Euro's. Boris J and Nigel F must be delighted. Will England be eligible for the Ryder Cup team and Eurovision after exercising Article 50?:D:D:D
 
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Purple said:
He's an ignorant racist buffoon with enough PR training to just about disguise himself as an ignorant intolerant buffoon.
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He's a bit Marmite for sure . . his detractors often play the man and not the ball, good line though. Methinks the reaction to Brexit is entirely OTT . . but time will tell.
 
michaelm said:
We would have better weathered the credit crisis (if we had not joined the Euro) otherwise and would be in a much better position to manage Brexit.
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Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. I hold a different opinion, and I hope I am entitled to that.

However I have given 2 solid reasons for my opinion, see post 41 above. You have given none for yours.
 
cremeegg I'm always happy to agree to disagree . . indeed, as many of my opinions/beliefs are minority ones (on AAM anyway), it's essential. Cheap eurozone credit fuelled huge private debt and when inept Irish politicians nationalised that debt under pressure from our EU friends we were sunk. I would agree with the opinion below . .
Duke of Marmalade said:
There can be no doubt that Ireland's financial crisis, which in proportionate terms is possibly the worst ever, would have been much less pronounced under sterling.
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Not everyone who votes for Brexit is a racist xenophobe but every racist xenophobe voted for Brexit.
 
Purple said:
Not everyone who votes for Brexit is a racist xenophobe but every racist xenophobe voted for Brexit.
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Certainly whatever percentage of racist xenophobes actually voted will have voted Leave. I suspect that numbers of such people are smaller than the Remainers care to believe.

The difference between the UK and say France, the Netherlands, Hungary and a few others is that the UK had the audacity to put it to a vote. Perhaps the EU should clearly state that we are in a process of European unification and integration (Merkel said Brexit was a watershed for the process of European unification and integration) and put it to a vote in the other 27 EU states so that those peoples who want to be part of a United States of Europe can drive on.
 
I'm not sure that is the case, an awful lot of people in the UK seem to have an issue with Eastern Europeans, especially outside of London. A simple example, I was speaking to a senior (as in Vice president level) person in a multinational 2 weeks ago who lived in the Midlands. This is a well paid and well educated man. He said he was voting leave because he was fed up of seeing shelves of Polish food in Sainsbury's and that most of the people he knew were voting leave for similar reasons. Watching a BBC report on Friday night from Peterborough, in a vox pop in the street, people were blaming the opening of a Polish shop for the closure of a bakery that had been 2 doors down and in existence for 3 generations. A similar report from Canvey Island in Essex had someone wishing they could go back to how things were 20 years ago. Eastern European immigrants are not as well integrated in the UK as they often are in Ireland.

I'm not saying it is the only reason why people voted leave but it is a very big factor[/QUOTE]
 
michaelm said:
Certainly whatever percentage of racist xenophobes actually voted will have voted Leave. I suspect that numbers of such people are smaller than the Remainers care to believe.

The difference between the UK and say France, the Netherlands, Hungary and a few others is that the UK had the audacity to put it to a vote. Perhaps the EU should clearly state that we are in a process of European unification and integration (Merkel said Brexit was a watershed for the process of European unification and integration) and put it to a vote in the other 27 EU states so that those peoples who want to be part of a United States of Europe can drive on.
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They did kind of put it to the vote; France and Holland rejected the European Constitution and Ireland rejected two treaties. The reality is that, for better or worse, the majority of voters in the EU do not support the path towards further integration which we are on.
 
Obviously, there are some who will use any excuse to be racist.

But for most I think is a feeling of being overwhelmed and powerless.

I think it is interesting that Daddyman’s friend is vice president of a multi-national.

Besides immigration, a growing anti-globalization sentiment contributed in part to Brexit.
 
Hi Sophrosyne,

I accept the points you make.

What I'm really trying to understand is what constitutes racism in this whole context so what I'm looking for is whether people believe the views expressed by Daddyman's contact were racist or not (and ideally with a why/why not!)
 
elacsaplau said:
Hi Sophrosyne,

I accept the points you make.

What I'm really trying to understand is what constitutes racism in this whole context so what I'm looking for is whether people believe the views expressed by Daddyman's contact were racist or not (and ideally with a why/why not!)
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How could that be construed as racism? Someone voting out because they are fed up about the level of immigration into their country and the obvious (if very petty) visualisation of it
(though I'm sure there's plenty who will make it their business to deem it racist).

I think people are entitled to hold their views and articulate them (without getting into insults or vulgarity) especially when the decision to allow mass immigration was made without consultation to the people.
Tony Blair and his cronies opened the borders to mass immigration from day 1 of the EU Accession back in 2004, forcing us to follow suit. It was a decision made by a few at his Cabinet table and from what I can see they did it for purely ideological reasons i.e. to increase the potential voting base for Labour in the future so as to be able to defeat the Tories.
Thats how base their logic was and they gave no though as to the consequences for Society as a whole...housing, schools, hospitals/GP's etc.
 
Purple said:
They did kind of put it to the vote; France and Holland rejected the European Constitution and Ireland rejected two treaties. The reality is that, for better or worse, the majority of voters in the EU do not support the path towards further integration which we are on.
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That the EU Constitution was enacted regardless by way of Lisbon Treaty, and that those driving the EU unification project don't care what the peoples of Europe want, should make even the most ardent Europhile uneasy.
 
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