The R Word

jimbob1234 said:
do you not think your shielded from the real world. we could have a depression here that could last 10 yrs and it wouldnt affect you in the slightest. other people could lose their jobs,cars and houses but it wudnt affect you cos your public sector job "protects" you from all that. its like you never left home and your mums are still minding you
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There are arguments for the benifits of working in the public/private sector.in times of plenty the private sector works make hay while the public sector cost along. In times of recession the private sector worker can have it bad. I got no answer to this.
 
I think csgirl has a good point.

At times of recession, the PS wage bill and pension is targeted as being a drain on much needed resources for the economy. However, the govt. should look at the money that is being spent on spin-cocotors, sub-committees, personal advisers, duplicate agencies, etc, etc. that have been created in the good times. The first stepo should be to dissolve/fire all the add-ons that they have developed over the last fifteen years. We can't afford them now.
 
uiop said:
What have we done wrong apart from house prices ? Are we any more corrupt than other countries ?

And what have we done right apart from low corporation tax ?
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What have we done wrong?

Allowed construction output to peak at almost 23% of GNP in 2006. Huge amounts of capital and labour were sucked into what is now a financial and economic black hole. If the construction sector were to shrink to 'normal' EU levels then we will have lost perhaps 10% of our economy.

Debates about the public sector aside, the real drivers of employment growth over the past 4/5 years have been the pubilc sector and the construction sector (with all the associated hiring in retail; services etc that were dependent on this).

We allowed inflation take hold and now workers (rightly) are demanding higher wages to compensate for this when in fact we need real wages to fall in order to restore competiveness (it took Germany a decade to do this). Ireland is a very expensive place to live in.

When did we last attract a flagship foreign company? We have completely failed to grow a domestic export sector yet the export sector is expected to now step up to the plate and rescue the economy. We are dependent on decisions taken in other countries for too much of our economic wellbeing.

Where are our domestic tech companies? When did and Iirsh company last list on the NASDAQ.

Knowledge economy? Not really. We need engineers and scientists but we have plumbers and estate agents. People are happy to believe that we have a well educated workforce but many IT companies are having trouble filling posts because I believe that we have a genuine educational and skills deficit. Why slog away at computer science when you could earn more as an electrician? For sure, we could attract overseas talent but see my point above about inflation.

Private sector credit almost equal to GNP! This will act as a severe drag on domestic consumption for years to come.

We need better infrastructure (the capital spending plan will address this in part but lack of €€€ will put a good portion on hold).

What have I missed?
 
There is slacking in both the public and private sector. I work in the private sector and there are some high paid, disgracefully lazy people in my office.

Saying all that... my experience with the public sector is consistently awful - they seem so unmotivated and lazy. I guess they know they won't get fired, so they don't care.

A large amount of people feel the same way I do, so we can't all be making it up.

Note I worked in the public sector for a while (outside contractor) and I witnessed first hand how little work gets done.
 
jimbob1234 said:
so welfairrite is at work he is doing 50% more work than he gets paid for and still he has time to spend all day on the internet . you dont sound very productive to me.
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Whats your excuse for being on the internet now?Shouldyou now be doign something productive?
 
JohnBoy said:
What have we done wrong?

Allowed construction output to peak at almost 23% of GNP in 2006. Huge amounts of capital and labour were sucked into what is now a financial and economic black hole. If the construction sector were to shrink to 'normal' EU levels then we will have lost perhaps 10% of our economy.

Debates about the public sector aside, the real drivers of employment growth over the past 4/5 years have been the pubilc sector and the construction sector (with all the associated hiring in retail; services etc that were dependent on this).

We allowed inflation take hold and now workers (rightly) are demanding higher wages to compensate for this when in fact we need real wages to fall in order to restore competiveness (it took Germany a decade to do this). Ireland is a very expensive place to live in.

When did we last attract a flagship foreign company? We have completely failed to grow a domestic export sector yet the export sector is expected to now step up to the plate and rescue the economy. We are dependent on decisions taken in other countries for too much of our economic wellbeing.

Where are our domestic tech companies? When did and Iirsh company last list on the NASDAQ.

Knowledge economy? Not really. We need engineers and scientists but we have plumbers and estate agents. People are happy to believe that we have a well educated workforce but many IT companies are having trouble filling posts because I believe that we have a genuine educational and skills deficit. Why slog away at computer science when you could earn more as an electrician? For sure, we could attract overseas talent but see my point above about inflation.

Private sector credit almost equal to GNP! This will act as a severe drag on domestic consumption for years to come.

We need better infrastructure (the capital spending plan will address this in part but lack of €€€ will put a good portion on hold).

What have I missed?
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Not a lot.
 
jimbob1234 said:
my apologies it was television that said that

television - im on holidays so im entitled to be on the internet. at work i wudnt have time. and to sum it all up we will finish with flaxs comment
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Dito,

You have serious issues with the public sector!!!!!!! its kind of scary.
 
entitled !!! a private sector is not entitled to anything at retirement, unless they pump a load of their monthly salary into a pension and then pray for good stock market times
 
jimbob1234 said:
entitled !!! a private sector is not entitled to anything at retirement, unless they pump a load of their monthly salary into a pension and then pray for good stock market times
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You fail to see one very basic point. Public sector workers do pay for thier pensions. For example I pay 400 E a month from my gross salary into my state pension. Ok it is not dependant on the markets but then again markets usually dookay on the long term.
 
private sector people retiring this year are not goign to be ok as the markets are in disarray.
 
jimbob1234 said:
private sector people retiring this year are not goign to be ok as the markets are in disarray.
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Not true. if a private sector employee had been clever they would have moved thier fund to a safe bet 3 or 4 years ago. So they are doing fine if they had any sence. Most advisors would advise this from a pention fund coming to maturity
 
television said:
But for me money has nothing todo with why I work more than I am contracted to. I do it because i believe I am doing something worthwhile for the community. Put a price in the thousands of people in the public service who think this way??
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So you work more than you are contracted to do!

You have just admitted there is a problem - maybe not with you - but in the system.

If you can do 50% more than you are contracted for then your contract was a ridiculous document in the first place. In the private sector the person who agreed such a contract would be sanctioned or sacked and the contract would be changed .

- It ain't rocket science
 
[broken link removed]

"Average weekly earnings for the State’s 256,600 public sector employees rose by 3.6 per cent to €931.38 by the end of last year"

Thats about 48k average and we haven't even included generous pensions and jobs for life security yet folks.

Average Ind Wage about 33k, somethings amiss, think about it.
 
jimbob, why haven't you gone for a public sector job? You say that the job is safe for life, has a great pension scheme, it is stress free, allows ample free time, and is even recession proof. Why haven't we all gone for this job. Your arguments might hold some weight if you tried being civil and state some fact rather than sensationalising differnet aspects of your perception of the public sector. This private v public sector thing borders on childish name calling and it boils down to personal choice, one set wants job security the other seems to want higher rewards.
 
Agree that these arguments are childish. If people think that the public or private sectors workers get it soo easy or make so much money, then why dont they apply for a job in that sector?

I'm tired of the ......" the public/private (delete as applicable) sector has whatever which I dont have in my job...." statements. Everyone is free to chose their career path.
 
csirl said:
Agree that these arguments are childish. If people think that the public or private sectors workers get it soo easy or make so much money, then why dont they apply for a job in that sector?

I'm tired of the ......" the public/private (delete as applicable) sector has whatever which I dont have in my job...." statements. Everyone is free to chose their career path.
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csirl

Have i missed something -- Are you a moderator or censor of some kind?

If you are tired of this debate then push the button and you won't see it any more !

Can we not express an opinion on something without being told that the obvious choice is just to change job.

Telling everyone to switch sector if they think the other is better is hardly practical.
 
Jimbob1234 this public v private argument is here if you want to read it. I will echo what others have said...why don't you join the public sector if it's all it's cracked up to be? Anyhoo back to the recession....
 
The public sector argument is linked to the recession. After all, they have to be paid and the source for those payments depend on performance of the economy.
Now, when there is a recession, where does the revenue come from to pay the public sector?

The government is their employer and the employer has reduced revenue to pay their employees, something has to give.

Shall we have a pay freeze like what Germany did or keep the wages high while offering redundancy to reduce the numbers?
 
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