The R Word

jimbob1234, aside from being foolish, making wild assertions about which specific banks might fail is against posting guidelines. I suggest you go back and edit your post before the mods close us down!

On the public service front, I see it as a futile debate about what they have vs. what we have. As government income shrinks, costs will come down. There will be rumblings of discontent. There will probably even be strikes. It may even get really bad. But this thread is probably not the place for it to be debated.
 
what are you talking about. who said there is crappy pay, terrible conditions etc in the private sector. i work in the private sector and am paid well and have great conditions . i have a problem with my counterpart in the public sector being paid more than me or the same as me and also getting great pension and a job for life. you cant have everything. you obviously are a civil servant with the silly posts you are making. everyone knows the civil service is in efficent. try getting a call back from the PAYE office after leaving a message at 2pm on a friday or any other day for that matter
 
jimbob1234 said:
the public sector is our biggest internal problem that is directly managed by the govt. its woefully inefficent, overpaid,lazy, and totally full of wasters.
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That is an outlandish, OTT, unjustified remark. It amazes me that when all is rosy in the garden, there is not a peep about the PS. This is because the private sector know that their wages, bonuses, perks are better than the PS. Then, when the R word is mentioned, suddenly it is the PS who are to blame for it!

Benchmarking DID NOT give any increases to PS last time around (as another poster suggested), rather it took into account the permanence adn pensionability of the job and offset it.

I am a PS, work hard adn am good at what I do. I give value for money and if I didn't have a PS pension coming (which I do pay into it, BTW), I would be paying into a private pension fund. Before bench marking, my equicvalent job in the private sector was paying 15% more in salary. The benchmarking award allowed me to earn as much as my couterparts in the private sector.

Oh, and 40000 clerical officers earn 20,000 a year, rising to 37,000 after 17 years in the job. Should they pay for the mismanagment of the economy by enduring a pay freeze?
 
jimbob1234 said:
what are you talking about. who said there is crappy pay, terrible conditions etc in the private sector. i work in the private sector and am paid well and have great conditions . i have a problem with my counterpart in the public sector being paid more than me or the same as me and also getting great pension and a job for life. you cant have everything. you obviously are a civil servant with the silly posts you are making. everyone knows the civil service is in efficent. try getting a call back from the PAYE office after leaving a message at 2pm on a friday or any other day for that matter
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Silly posts? Constructive comment. I did not say every one in the private sector has crappy conditions. i said some, i.e, those 550 people in Hibernian. Yes I work in the public sector and I work hard. In fact I probably do 50% more work than I get paid for.
 
For the first time since the very early 90s someone I know has been made redundant. They work in a mortgage company and 9 of the staff have been give notice.
 
television said:
Yes I work in the public sector and I work hard. In fact I probably do 50% more work than I get paid for.
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This comment demonstrates the mindset in the public sector that is the main problem.

How can you do 50% more work than you are paid for ? - that is just called increased productivity in the real world and you do not get paid extra for it. It is expected ! - Don't ever leave the public sector my friend - you will sink with this attitude
 
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badge55 said:
This comment demonstrates the mindset in the public sector that is the main problem.

How can you do 50% more work than you are paid for ? - that is just called increased productivity in the real world and you do not get paid extra for it. It is expected ! - Don't ever leave the public sector my friend - you will sink with this attitude
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I am no economist but there is something a little suspect about your reasoning here. If you increased your productivity by 50% would you go to your boss looking for a pay rise? If you dont then I suggest you are the one with the problem.

Again I have worked in the private sector. The amount of slacking where I worked (a major Irish bank) was pretty high. As someone said this Public sector/private sector slagging match will do no worker any good. But go ahead sling some unsubstantiated mud.
 
exactly badge, if a person in the public sector says they are productive then they are deluded. do they have goals? do they get paid less if they do less work, of course not. thousands of public servants just sail through their day and career and never really know what the working world is really like.

welfairtie - you say "The benchmarking award allowed me to earn as much as my couterparts in the private sector.
"

how can you justify this if you have a defined pension scheme and can never get the sack?? you should not earning the same as a private sector worker
 
What needs to be cut in the public service is all the "jobs for the boys" quangos and agencies that dont contribute much. The wage bill for the core civil service is a surprisingly low amount of overall government expediture - equivalent to only a few euros per tax payer per week. However, the programme expenditure is full of bloated quagos wasting money.

On example I've come across in recent years is where 2 similar major projects were undertaken. One was undertaken directly by a Government department who allocated 3 staff to the project. It got done on time on budget. The other project was allocated to a specifically set up quango with 20-30 staff, its own HQ and politically connected board. Didnt happen & millions were wasted.
 
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jimbob1234 said:
welfairtie - you say "The benchmarking award allowed me to earn as much as my couterparts in the private sector.
"

how can you justify this if you have a defined pension scheme and can never get the sack?? you should not earning the same as a private sector worker
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I can justify it by the fact that I worked as hard for my salary as anybody in the private sector. It has nothing to do with a defined pension scheme. I could die before I retire.

Please explain factually why you think I should not be earning the same as a private sector worker.
 
Good post, csirl. Trouble is, once these quangos have been born it is very hard to put them down!
 
as you have too many perks. once again i will repeat them, the defined pension scheme, flexi time, cant get laid off etc etc

can i ask you a questio and please be honest, are you at work at present?
 
jimbob1234 said:
exactly badge, if a person in the public sector says they are productive then they are deluded. do they have goals? do they get paid less if they do less work, of course not. thousands of public servants just sail through their day and career and never really know what the working world is really like.

1. The nurses who mind your family when their sick, the ambulence men who attend car wrecks, the teachers who teach your kids etc..........

Do they have goals? of course not. Do they sail through the day doing nothing.

If you exibited a little balance, a little understanding for the human condition, a little common sence, then maybe your argument about the need for reform would hold more weight. But you sound so bitter and blinkered.
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Welfarite said:
Please explain factually why you think I should not be earning the same as a private sector worker.
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Permanency and pensions. But this debate could go over and back without ever being resolved. Better keep it on the recession topic.
 
television said:
I am no economist but there is something a little suspect about your reasoning here. If you increased your productivity by 50% would you go to your boss looking for a pay rise? If you dont then I suggest you are the one with the problem.
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No problem here Television - I run a company in the private sector - and yes if there is increased productivity then a small bonus might be paid

My point is that nobody in the private sector thinks they are doing 50% more work than they are being paid for. If they do think that then they will quickly learn that they were not doing enough before and only now is the performance satisfactory.

I stand by my comments 100% and don't want you to take it personally - you are entitled to disagree
 
csirl said:
What needs to be cut in the public service is all the "jobs for the boys" quagos and agencies that dont contribute much. The wage bill for the core civil service is a surprisingly low amount of overall government expediture - equivalent to only a few euros per tax payer per week. However, the programme expenditure is full of bloated quagos wasting money.

On example I've come across in recent years is where 2 similar major projects were undertaken. One was undertaken directly by a Government department who allocated 3 staff to the project. It got done on time on budget. The other project was allocated to a specifically set up quago with 20-30 staff, its own HQ and politically connected board. Didnt happen & millions were wasted.
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100% in aggreement.
 
do you not think your shielded from the real world. we could have a depression here that could last 10 yrs and it wouldnt affect you in the slightest. other people could lose their jobs,cars and houses but it wudnt affect you cos your public sector job "protects" you from all that. its like you never left home and your mums are still minding you
 
badge55 said:
No problem here Television - I run a company in the private sector - and yes if there is increased productivity then a small bonus might be paid

My point is that nobody in the private sector thinks they are doing 50% more work than they are being paid for. If they do think that then they will quickly learn that they were not doing enough before and only now is the performance satisfactory.

I stand by my comments 100% and don't want you to take it personally - you are entitled to disagree
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See the reward I get for doing 50%more than I get paid to do is personal satisfaction. I like doing it. I dont need monetary reward. In the private sector doing 50% more would mean that in the past you may have been unproductive in the first place. But for me money has nothing todo with why I work more than I am contracted to. I do it because i believe I am doing something worthwhile for the community. Put a price in the thousands of people in the public service who think this way??
 
jimbob1234 said:
as you have too many perks. once again i will repeat them, the defined pension scheme, flexi time, cant get laid off etc etc

can i ask you a questio and please be honest, are you at work at present?
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How is flexitime a "perk" in your mind?
Yes, I am at work. If you look at my usual posts, you will see that AAM is part of this. And please don't get personal in your posts.
 
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