Ireland's Call

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Far better is to count how many catholics have played for Ulster and compare it with actual players registered etc

ClubMan, my point, and is, while Ireland's Call is awful, rugby isn't and won't be the sport of the whole country nor a unifying sport - the issue of under representation in Ulster is something that never gets discussed as "rugby is an all-island sport". Far more unifying are boxing and equestrian sports who have anthems played home and away regardless of who is sitting on a horse or standing in the ring.

Does that explain it?


ClubMan said:
Eh? I'm finding it more and more difficult to make sense of your posts in this thread and you still haven't really satisfactorily explained why you introduced the issue of religion in the first place.
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Bushfire said:
You might see the team as representing a non-offensive neutral geographical entity, those who carry their tri-colours to games and sing Amhran na bhFiann with gusto see the team as representing the country they live in, Ireland. There’s nothing aggressive or anti-Ulster about it, it’s all perfectly natural. Sure, even Davy Tweed coped with it. For a while. ;)

Those supporters who choose not to sing Amhran na bhFiann are obviously quite entitled to view the team in a different way, as you do, as an all-island collection of players who represent nothing more than a geographical entity. Those two views seem to have lived happily alongside each other, even with Amhran na bhFiann ringing in the background.
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When I go to matches I see the team as representing Ireland, my country. I am sure that, as you suggest, a Unionist from Belfast feels differently. That's why our national anthem is not sung.
The less any of this matters the closer we will get to a united Ireland.
 
Ireland A played the England Saxons at Ravenhill last Friday night.

Does anyone know what was sung before that match?
 
almo said:
Far better is to count how many catholics have played for Ulster and compare it with actual players registered etc

ClubMan, my point, and is, while Ireland's Call is awful, rugby isn't and won't be the sport of the whole country nor a unifying sport - the issue of under representation in Ulster is something that never gets discussed as "rugby is an all-island sport". Far more unifying are boxing and equestrian sports who have anthems played home and away regardless of who is sitting on a horse or standing in the ring.

Does that explain it?
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No - what has Catholicism got to do with this?
 
Purple said:
When I go to matches I see the team as representing Ireland, my country. I am sure that, as you suggest, a Unionist from Belfast feels differently. That's why our national anthem is not sung.
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But it is sung.

Purple said:
The less any of this matters the closer we will get to a united Ireland.
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But what will be the anthem for a united Ireland? :)

A Nation of Sashes Once Again?
 
ClubMan, we are talking about music for a unified country/nation. A sport which is "representative" of the country and it's inhabitants (on an international stage). And Ireland's Call was put forward to try slide into place of the Republic's National Anthem, just under the national level there is a glossing over of a situation where there has been long standing problem of across the board representation, which is as important (or nearly) as a simply ditty, or maybe this is incorrect? Ultimately rugby is not representative of the whole society and since the players are pro's they'll stand to attention for whatever music they are told to.

ClubMan said:
No - what has Catholicism got to do with this?
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Still doesn't explain your original references to Catholicism. I'm beginning to feel like Jeremy Paxman now. So I think I'll stop. I just don't know what doing a sectarian headcount of Ulster rugby players has to do with this issue at all.
 
ClubMan said:
I just don't know what doing a sectarian headcount of Ulster rugby players has to do with this issue at all.
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Are you not being a bit harsh on Almo here? I don't think him bringing 'Catholics' in to it is sectarian at all, it was just his way of identifying one side of the NI community (rather than going down the Nationalists/Republicans v Unionists/Loyalists route) when he was asking if they get fair representation on the Ulster rugby team.

(Have no idea if they do or not, but God forbid we go down the South African route and use a quota to get all sections of the community on the team).

But if this is an issue then it should be dealt with. Ireland's Call exists partly to make Ulster rugby players more comfortable playing for Ireland, but Ulster rugby needs to do its bit too. It seems to be the onus is always being put on the southern, for want of a better word, side to accommodate unionist sensitivities, but surely it's a two way street?
 
ClubMan, the Paxman bit is okay, I was watching a show called absolute power (apparently it's supposed to be a BBC comedy) and there was a presenter on interviewing a Bin Laden who was being blackmailed by Stephen Fry. Okay, that was an brain blip.

No, the catholic element is there because everybody focuses on the anthem, that it's an all-island team, yet within the game itself it is unrepresentative of the 2 countries and anthem or no it's moot.
 
almo said:
No, the catholic element is there because everybody focuses on the anthem, that it's an all-island team, yet within the game itself it is unrepresentative of the 2 countries and anthem or no it's moot.
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Not all Nationalists/Republicans (both with a small and large R) are Catholics. And vice versa.
 
Bushfire said:
Are you not being a bit harsh on Almo here? I don't think him bringing 'Catholics' in to it is sectarian at all, it was just his way of identifying one side of the NI community (rather than going down the Nationalists/Republicans v Unionists/Loyalists route) when he was asking if they get fair representation on the Ulster rugby team.
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Of course it's sectarian (by definition - i.e. counting the heads based on membership of a particular religious sect) to bring a headcount of Catholic rugby players into it. Worse still is assuming that this necessarily has some relevance in terms of inferring the political beliefs or ideals of those counted or omitted. :rolleyes: It would be a lot different if he had said let's count the number of Ulster rugby players who hold Nationalist/[Rr]epublican ideals and whose ideals might not be reflected by the UK/NI state or trappings such as its monarchy, unofficial anthem etc.
 
Ah for Heavens sake why don't we give it "A Nation Once Again" on the big screen for all to sing Sat week. Tis a catchy tune.

Then lets get HRM Quenn Elizebeth to throw in the sliothar at the next All -Ireland Hurling final and finally bury this whole thing into the dust bin of history where it belongs. C'mon the Munster Fusiliers who fought at Mons, the Iniskillings at Waterloo and the boys from the old brigade who stood with me when history was made!
 
None of what has been said has much to do with the original point of the thread:

Ireland's Call is gock.

Let's not lose sight of that!
 
Okay, ClubMan, I'll rephrase the original idea that was only put down to show how ridiculous having a neutral anthem/song/ditty is:
Can we count the number of Republican/Nationalist/Poor who have played for Ulster, and for the Irish team, how many from lower/lower middle class disadvantaged areas have played for Ireland against those who actually play?
:)
 
ClubMan said:
Of course it's sectarian
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It's not.

ClubMan said:
It would be a lot different if he had said let's count the number of Ulster rugby players who hold Nationalist/[Rr]epublican ideals.......
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Ah Clubman, you're taking pedantry to previously uncharted territories :)

It might be daft but we both know 'Catholics' and 'Protestants' have been the labels used to describe the two sides over the years, even though religion has flip all to do with it. They're lazy but they're easy labels, that's why they're used. (This of course led to not-very-informed outsiders assuming it was a battle about preferred flavours of christianity).

I have Catholic cousins in the north whose greatest nightmare was a united Ireland (well, until the Celtic Tiger stuff), similarly I have northern Presbyterian friends (some of my best friends are....) who feel a whole lot more Irish than they do British and are quite in to the idea of a united Ireland, for sundry reasons.

So of course religious labels are kind of silly, but using them isn't sectarian, it's just a sweeping way of distinguishing one community from the other. Otherwise you'd be there for the night talking about constitutional Nationalists, pro-Agreement Republicans, anti-Agreement Republicans, pro-Agreement Unionists, anti-Agreement Unionists, pro-Agreement Loyalists, anti-Agreement Loyalists, Real IRA, Unreal IRA, Continuity IRA.........God Clubman, nobody has that that much time.
 
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