Ireland's Call

[Z100]

Ulster Rugby has a Northern unionist tradition.

That’s certainly true, and it’s a tradition that, rightly or wrongly, Ulster rugby has guarded over the years, with no attempt ever made to dilute its British/Unionist image, in terms of flags and anthems, so it might attract players and supporters from the ‘other’ side. In that sense Ulster rugby is as guilty as the GAA in the north for emphasising the divisions between the two communities, rather than trying to lessen them.

Do you think it's fair to expect them to stand for Amhran na Bfhiann alone?

Personally yes, but I have no major objection to a second song being played if it keeps Ulster Unionism happy The ones I feel sorry for are the opposition, how painful must it be to have to stand through your opponents’ two anthems!

I think it is to their credit that they stand for it at all.

Why is it a credit to them? I think the real credit goes to the southern authorities who decided to play a second anthem to appease Ulster Unionism, rather than sticking to the line ‘if you play for Ireland you stand for the Irish anthem and no other’. Do they play a second song at Ravenhill, apart from God Save the Queen, at cup finals, etc in an attempt to appease and attract people from the ‘other’ tradition? No.

Would those from Leinster and Munster stand for God save the queen? I don't think so.

Why would Leinster and Munster (and Connacht – they play rugby too, sort of) ever have to stand for God Save the Queen. They’re Irish.

 

[CCOVICH]

And don't try to say you remember singing "OUR (Rep. of Ireland) national anthem" at away rugby matches. That has simply never happened.

Really? I seem to recall that Amhran na bhFiann wasn't played at Twickenham, but thought it used to be played at other grounds?


I've said it before, let's just adopt the Brazilian anthem for our rugby team, or expel the Italians and use theirs!

 

[Z100]

Perhaps they should sing alternate verses of Amhrán na bhFiann and God Save the Queen for parity of esteem? (Hmmmm - nice assonance there if I say so myself).

How about "God Save Our Soldier's Song"?

 

[Z100]

The players play for Ireland, not The Republic of Ireland or the province of Northern Ireland. They do not play for a political entity but a geographical one.

I'd love to see you tell Paul O'Connell, John Hayes, Peter Stringer, etc that they're playing for a geographical entity, not their country That might be how you view it, it's certainly not how they do.

 

[Z100]

Really? I seem to recall that Amhran na bhFiann wasn't played at Twickenham, but it used to be played at other grounds?

As far as I know not playing Amhran na bhFiann at (all) away games is a relatively recent thing, but understandably enough no one was brave enough to suggest not playing it in Dublin

I've said it before, let's just adopt the Brazilian anthem for our rugby team, or expel the Italians and use theirs!

Top idea! Although I think I'd go for the French anthem, or the Welsh, or the Scottish, or the Russian. Janie, even I'd be brave enough to ruck and maul for my country after hearing them.

 

[Purple]

I'd love to see you tell Paul O'Connell, John Hayes, Peter Stringer, etc that they're playing for a geographical entity, not their country That might be how you view it, it's certainly not how they do.

Have a look [broken link removed] for the history of the IRFU. You will see that it is an all Ireland sporting organisation and does not represent a political entity. As far as I am concerned all of the players represent their country but the IRFU and the Irish team still represent, and is comprised of, people from two political entities. That's the way it is.

 

[Purple]

How about "God Save Our Soldier's Song"?

 

[Z100]

Have a look [broken link removed] for the history of the IRFU. You will see that it is an all Ireland sporting organisation and does not represent a political entity. As far as I am concerned all of the players represent their country but the IRFU and the Irish team still represent, and is comprised of, people from two political entities. That's the way it is.

Not denying that the rulebook may refer to geographical entities, rather than political, but the rulebook has no impact on the heart! O'Connell and Co play for their country, Ireland, and no man will persuade them otherwise.

 

[Z100]

Perhaps they should sing alternate verses of Amhrán na bhFiann and God Save the Queen for parity of esteem? (Hmmmm - nice assonance there if I say so myself). I guess there'd be arguments over which verse came first then though.

Your wish is my command:

God save your gracious Queen,
(Whose soldiers’ lives aren’t pledged to Ireland)
Long live your noble Queen,
(although, no more our ancient sire land
shall shelter the despot or the slave).
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
(But in Erin's cause, come woe or weal
‘mid cannon's roar and rifles' peal
We'll chant a soldier's song).
Long may she reign over you,
God save your Queen (and Bertie).

 

[ClubMan]

Maybe you'd be better off sticking to international sports where the teams represent political entities? Soccer maybe?

What about, say, Derry City representing the FAI/eircom League in European club competitions?

 

[ClubMan]

How about "God Save Our Soldier's Song"?

I like it.

Or we could got for Micheal Kelly's (Apres Match's GAA overseer of assimilation of foreign games into Gaelic zones) solution and sing GSTQ as Gaeilge.

 

[Z100]

What about, say, Derry City representing the FAI/eircom League in European club competitions?

Ah but remember, it's Free Derry, as even those PSG banners confirmed, so you'd be an awful brave man to tell them they're a British club representing the Republic of Ireland in European competition

 

[almo]

It's a perception, clubman, that Ulster represents a broad swathe of society, like that hurling in Armagh offers a wholesome view of the Orchard County. Religion isn't the problem, seregation (mental or physical) is - not in an apartheid way, far worse, like why no serbs get a game for Zadar (even Dado Prso was told to scoot).

I didn't have a chance to get into the swing of it as the music was off and running before I even knew it began, and then when I was enjoying it the big roar went up a line earlier than normal - drunk people and boxing, what else can you do!

Er, that doesn't really explain why you mentioned religion at all!?

Why - did you not know the words? Or are you not a Catholic?

 

[almo]

Bushfire, they're not even British, they're UK citizens! Britain, great or otherwise, is Scotland, Wales and England, Northern Ireland can really only claim to be Britain Light - less calories than Scotland but mroe removed from reality than Wales.

Ah but remember, it's Free Derry, as even those PSG banners confirmed, so you'd be an awful brave man to tell them they're a British club representing the Republic of Ireland in European competition

 

[ClubMan]

Ah but remember, it's Free Derry, as even those PSG banners confirmed, so you'd be an awful brave man to tell them they're a British club representing the Republic of Ireland in European competition

Not British. UK perhaps.

Post crossed with almo's.

 

[ClubMan]

It's a perception, clubman, that Ulster represents a broad swathe of society, like that hurling in Armagh offers a wholesome view of the Orchard County. Religion isn't the problem, seregation (mental or physical) is - not in an apartheid way, far worse, like why no serbs get a game for Zadar (even Dado Prso was told to scoot).

Eh? I'm finding it more and more difficult to make sense of your posts in this thread and you still haven't really satisfactorily explained why you introduced the issue of religion in the first place.

 

[darag]

As far as I know not playing Amhran na bhFiann at (all) away games is a relatively recent thing, but understandably enough no one was brave enough to suggest not playing it in Dublin

Amhran na bhFiann has simply never been played anywhere at an away Ireland game. Ireland's Call was specifically comissioned in 95 so that Ireland would have an away anthem. Before that we had no anthem at away games.

The idea that not playing Amhran na bhFiann at away games is some sort of recent PC concession to unionism shows a lack of knowledge of the history of Irish rugby. At no point was Amhran na bhFiann associated with the team. It was played in Lansdown as a mark of respect if the president was present. In the very distant past when Ireland played some home games in Belfast, God Save the Queen was played for similar reasons for whoever (UK) government representative was present.

Seems to me that objections to the fact that Amhran na bhFiann isn't the anthem of the Irish rugby team are motivated by politics. Certainly they can't be based on the traditions of Irish rugby.

 

[Marion]

Interestingly, I noticed a number of the team who did not sing Amhran na Bhfainn (at least when the camera was focussed on them). Also, it seemed that Ireland's Call was sung with gusto when the camera featured a couple of players.

At the end of the day, what does it really matter?

Marion

 

[Delboy]

Interestingly, I noticed a number of the team who did not sing Amhran na Bhfainn (at least when the camera was focussed on them). Also, it seemed that Ireland's Call was sung with gusto when the camera featured a couple of players.

At the end of the day, what does it really matter?

Marion

I've heard that the irish players are 'obliged' to be seen to sing Ireland's Call by the powers that be....I believe it too, as there's no way that all 15+ subs would sing it with such bravado, given that as many punters hate it as those that love it. It's an awful ditty, an embarrasment. Personally I'd like to hear 'A Nation once again'...now there's a powerful tune, as good as the French or Italian anthems.

 

[Z100]

Amhran na bhFiann has simply never been played anywhere at an away Ireland game…..

I’ll bow to your greater knowledge on this Darag, I’m horrified that my dodgy memory has failed me yet again, could have sworn we played A na bhF away from home, but I was obviously getting confused with Irish sporting associations who insist on playing our anthem.

…..shows a lack of knowledge of the history of Irish rugby.

Guilty as charged. But sounds to me like this is more about the history of Irish rugby politics, not of the game itself? I don’t recall anthems ever been much of an issue until the emergence of the absurd Ireland’s Call. It quite obviously wasn’t solely commissioned to just provide us with an ‘anthem’ for away games when it is also played at home – that, evidently, was a gesture towards Ulster rugby which, as you said yourself, “has a Northern unionist tradition”. Only you used the term ‘PC’.

At no point was Amhran na bhFiann associated with the team…..seems to me that objections to the fact that Amhran na bhFiann isn't the anthem of the Irish rugby team are motivated by politics.

Ah now, would you listen to yourself?!? Even Stevie Wonder could see that your impassioned stance on this issue, and obvious antipathy to our anthem, couldn’t be anything but politically motivated! And that’s fine, we’re all entitled to be motivated by our personal politics, but at least be honest about it.

No matter how much it might pain you it is a simple fact: Amhran na bhFiann is most definitely ‘associated’ with the Irish rugby team by the Irish rugby supporters who belt it out at Lansdowne/Croke Park.

You might see the team as representing a non-offensive neutral geographical entity, those who carry their tri-colours to games and sing Amhran na bhFiann with gusto see the team as representing the country they live in, Ireland. There’s nothing aggressive or anti-Ulster about it, it’s all perfectly natural. Sure, even Davy Tweed coped with it. For a while.

Those supporters who choose not to sing Amhran na bhFiann are obviously quite entitled to view the team in a different way, as you do, as an all-island collection of players who represent nothing more than a geographical entity. Those two views seem to have lived happily alongside each other, even with Amhran na bhFiann ringing in the background.