Sit In at the Passport Office

[Complainer]

No I believe in Real Life Economics... We dont have any money, well then Anglo can go and sing for their money, so can AIB and BOI. They should not be given another single cent and they should be hit with a Banking Tax to pay us all back. And Senior Public Servant should take the maximum hit with low paid staff being protected

But... Fianna Fail Economics will mean that Anglo will get the €6bn they ask for, developers will be bailed out, those who caused this mess will get away with it. But pity about the low paid and those who have lost their jobs because sorry lads we have no money for you guys...

Don't forget to mention the deflationary effect of the cuts driving us deeper and deeper into recession;

http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2010/03/economically-damaging-and-fiscally.html

 

[StevieC]

No I believe in Real Life Economics... We dont have any money, well then Anglo can go and sing for their money, so can AIB and BOI. They should not be given another single cent and they should be hit with a Banking Tax to pay us all back. And Senior Public Servant should take the maximum hit with low paid staff being protected

But... Fianna Fail Economics will mean that Anglo will get the €6bn they ask for, developers will be bailed out, those who caused this mess will get away with it. But pity about the low paid and those who have lost their jobs because sorry lads we have no money for you guys...

If you really believed in real life economics you would realise that the ordinary people and lower paid all have bank accounts and savings in Anglo, AIB and BOI. If the banks were allowed to go bust then the lower paid workers savings would be wiped out, the cost of the bail out is less than allowing all these banks to fail unless you want to wipe out the savings of the general public and place all businesses with an overdraft facility in serious financial trouble if they couldnt set up alternative arrangements elsewhere. Even if you guaranteed all Irish peoples/businesses accounts and said tough luck to all foreign depositors, that causes other problems, just look at Iceland. I agree that a bank tax is necessary in the future, getting shares in half dead banks isnt my idea of payment.

Its not about FF, FG, Labour or any other political flag you want to fly under, regardless of whether you disagree with FF, the other parties solutions to the banking problem would cost the taxpayer arguably just as much.

29 developers dead by suicide in the last 2 years, dont try to say they have got off scot free to be honest. Like it or not we (even the lower paid racked up large credit card debt) got ourselves into a mess and the guy with the big stick to stop it happening (the former head of the Financial Regulator) was asleep at the wheel.

 

[Complainer]

29 developers dead by suicide in the last 2 years, dont try to say they have got off scot free to be honest.

Is it only suicides of developers that matters? What about the 400 suicides each year recently? Might be interesting to see how many of these were related to financial pressures arising from climbing/crashing house prices etc.

 

[Birroc]

The country doesnt have money, we are borrowing to finance current expenditure at the moment. Unless you believe in ostrich economics, we have to pay those borrowings back at some point. The more borrowings, the more interest we have to pay on our national debt, which means even less money for public sector wages/services.

Well put!

 

[StevieC]

Is it only suicides of developers that matters? What about the 400 suicides each year recently? Might be interesting to see how many of these were related to financial pressures arising from climbing/crashing house prices etc.

Of course its not only them that matters. I was simply pointing out that developers have not gotten off scot free as was being implied. Every suicide is a tragedy, I wasnt in any way trying to diminish other deaths.

 

[annet]

Anybody see the stark comparison between what is and not acceptable here. Persons waiting for their passports have had to queue from Molesworth Street down to Kildare Street and tempers flare to the point of sit in's, because applicants dont receive passports in a timely period or when the office said they would.

Now compare that scenario to the growing number of social welfare recipients who for years have had to join winding queues outside social welfare offices and local post offices to collect their payments, and coupled with that the excessive timeframe it takes the Department to even process claims.

I can never understand why these people dont mobilize to be the next point of public protest.

 

[thedaras]

Annet,I think its because those who are claiming social welfare feel so deflated.

I have said and will continue to say that it is wrong that anyone should have to queue on the streets for a payment they are entitled to.

I despair when camera crews decide to film them.

There were people on the joe duffy show,complaining about the treatment they received when trying to get social welfare...but I never heard anymore after that.

 

[annet]

Annet,I think its because those who are claiming social welfare feel so deflated.

I have said and will continue to say that it is wrong that anyone should have to queue on the streets for a payment they are entitled to.

I despair when camera crews decide to film them.

There were people on the joe duffy show,complaining about the treatment they received when trying to get social welfare...but I never heard anymore after that.

I agree totally, it must be so demoralizing to have to queue on a street or outside offices, let alone having film crews filming lenghty dole queues (the one they continuously seem to re-use is the one in Cork I think). Persons who are unemployed are voiceless and I think it may also comes down to societal attitudes of stigma. Of course, if persons do complain they may fear that there may be real or perceived ramifications from their actions where they could have to wait even longer periods for their claims to be processed or even have their claims denied.

I also think our knowledge of rights is on a completely different plain to how politicians and some public sector workers understand rights - to some of these people welfare claimants forgo all rights even civil.

 

[Deiseblue]

What a cracking time for Anglo Irish Bank to reveal pay increases for 60 employees , 40 here and 20 in the UK.

That will go a long way to diffuse differences at the current Government/Union discussions.

 

[darag]

What a cracking time for Anglo Irish Bank to reveal pay increases for 60 employees , 40 here and 20 in the UK.

That will go a long way to diffuse differences at the current Government/Union discussions.

Anglo is now a semi-state and so it's workers are protected from market realities. If Anglo had been cut loose and left to it's own devices it would have gone bust a year and a half ago and not only would there have been no pay increases, there would be no jobs in Anglo.

 

[liaconn]

What point is that exactly?

That the way in which pay cuts were implemented was unfair and that low paid civil servants cannot afford to have Govt coming back to them time and time again to save money.

 

[liaconn]

I think, perhaps without them realising, their 'point' may be backfiring somewhat.

Has it not occurred to them that most non PS/CS employees work way outside of their supposed remit all the time?

QUOTE]

So do most PS/CS employees. As other people have said, work to rules at times of dispute is not confined to the Public Sector.

 

[VOR]

Nothing illegal if they follow a process like this. Firing isn't an option as ee's are protected under the Industrial Relations Act when on industrial action. Docking pay is the logical option.

Can I just ask what is the role of the passport office if not to issue passports? I accept there may be limited instances where their expertise would be required such as the recent Israeli scandal. But, that aside, the task of those sitting at the counter must be to take applications for and issue passports to the general public.

It is but you can't dock wages with a legitimate WTR because the employees are working to exact specifications of their contract of employment. In theory, therefore, they aren't in breach of the contract and aren't open to docking of wages or any form of action against them.

The only avenue would be if there is a specific link in the contract and pay to certain performance criteria and standards, say operating standards. These would set the specifics on the duties of certain roles and could be seen (depending on the specifics of the contracts) as part of their contract of employment.

However, if these don't exist and the duties have never been formalised, there is nothing illegal with the WTR and nothing that is a breach of contract.

So is it actually possible that the contracts are so rubbish that they do not include an all encompassing "serving the public/republic/minister" condition.
I am genuinely curious about this. I mean, when you start in the passport office working on the counter what do you think your job will be?

Also, is it only a matter of time before somebody (nuts, no doubt) decides to take a case on the basis of the freedom of movement as the Republic has refused to issue them a passport and allow them to leave this island?

 

[Caveat]

So do most PS/CS employees.

So what? That's my point. Everyone does. It's only the PS/CS that seem to make a big deal out of it. I think it's a fairly useless form of protest TBH. To the public, it just reinforces the perception of jobsworthism and pettiness thought to be rife within the public sector. In this particular case many inconvenienced members of the public too. They'll just hate them for it and by extension, the wider public service will also bear the brunt of increased general disgruntlement.

As other people have said, work to rules at times of dispute is not confined to the Public Sector.

Maybe not confined to it, but they pretty much have the monopoly on it.

 

[Firefly]

Nice lateral thinking for a councillor in this morning's Irish Times.

Madam, – Perhaps instead of closing offices and inconveniencing citizens, the public service unions might consider opening their offices and giving the public a full service, but refuse to take in the cash or payments for such services? I suspect that might get them more public backing and a speedier response from Government. – Yours, etc,
Cllr DERMOT LACEY,
Beech Hill Drive,
Donnybrook,
Dublin 4.

 

[Shawady]

Nice lateral thinking for a councillor in this morning's Irish Times.

Madam, – Perhaps instead of closing offices and inconveniencing citizens, the public service unions might consider opening their offices and giving the public a full service, but refuse to take in the cash or payments for such services? I suspect that might get them more public backing and a speedier response from Government. – Yours, etc,
Cllr DERMOT LACEY,
Beech Hill Drive,
Donnybrook,
Dublin 4.

Didn't Dublin Bus do something like this a couple of years ago by not accept bus fares from passengers.
Can't see it happen though as collecting the money would be part of their procedure and would be easy to prove that an employee was not doing their job.

 

[shnaek]

So do most PS/CS employees. As other people have said, work to rules at times of dispute is not confined to the Public Sector.

Where has this happened in the private sector? Does anyone have an example? I am pretty sure I'd be fired if I took such an attitude in work. Not that I would take this attitude in any case, as I have pride in my work.

 

[VOR]

Where has this happened in the private sector? Does anyone have an example?

I am almost certain that workers in Element 6 Shannon threatened this as well as voting for an all-out strike. The CEO warned that any such action would lead to more job losses.

All of us working here in Shannon should show that we can agree on a plan that will sustain jobs here. Clearly, anything which disrupts operations can have no positive effect whatsoever.

"Again, I urge all involved to work together to save jobs, not take actions that can only endanger them," he said.

After staff were persuaded from staging a sit-in in recent days, Mr Sullivan also warned that any disruption to production would only harden the resolve of the Element Six executive to force through the original plan with the loss of 370 jobs.

Unions have also rejected a claim from management over an outbreak of "blue flu" among Element Six workers, where there has been an alleged rise in the number of uncertified sick days taken by staff

I wonder when we will hear Brian saying anything remotely as honest and forthright as the above?

 

[carpedeum]

Where has this happened in the private sector? Does anyone have an example? I am pretty sure I'd be fired if I took such an attitude in work. Not that I would take this attitude in any case, as I have pride in my work.

Totally agree. Perhaps, we need to start a debate on outsourcing certain public service tasks to the private sector? Security concerns are easy to overcome.

One major Dublin hospital is already looking at outsourcing portering, catering and other duties and not only for cost effectiveness. The employees are becoming impossible to manage and are not carrying out duties efficiently or properly. There are many other possibilities e.g. Laboratory testing, teacher appraisals and inspections, fire and ambulance services etc.

There have been basic management falures in the Passport Office too. How did the backlog of 40,000 evolve? Why were two out of three essential printers allowed remain unrepaired and not replaced? Where was the maintenance contract with SLA for this hardware? Is there a basic business continuity plan? These would be not lacking in the private sector?

 

[MANTO]

Didn't Dublin Bus do something like this a couple of years ago by not accept bus fares from passengers.
Can't see it happen though as collecting the money would be part of their procedure and would be easy to prove that an employee was not doing their job.

But wait, if its part of the procedure to collect the money how can the issuing of passports to customers also not be part, would you hand over the fee at the counter and walk away without your passport?

They have really shot themselves in the foot on this one. Take your anger out on the Government - not the public who you want to back you up.