Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

[shnaek]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Where has all the dosh from the last ten years gone?

Benchmarking. Government threw money at every vested interest. They forgot they'd have to pay that money year on year, not just once off.
Ireland is incapable of ruling itself. We have 100 years proof of this. So the question is, what are we going to do about it?

 

[shanegl]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Election to what end SLF? FG want to cut PS pay too!

 

[liaconn]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Yes, and I think the Public servants underestimate the extreme anger of the public.

How could we. The politics of envy and begrudgery that we've seen over the past few days is shocking. I think many public servants now feel that no matter what we do, it won't be enough and I think there will be a strike.

 

[DavyJones]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

How could we. The politics of envy and begrudgery that we've seen over the past few days is shocking. I think many public servants now feel that no matter what we do, it won't be enough and I think there will be a strike.

Think bigger. Think of the parents who will have to take unpaid leave because their kids school is closed, think of the people who will have medical procedures postponed because of strikes etc etc. More strikes and the common people will turn against ye, not just the media.

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

However one thing is certain and that is we have seen the end of any negotiated public sector reform for the foreseeable future.

I think the one thing that is certain is that we'll have at least another €10bn to make up over the next 3 budgets.

Despite all the shaping over the last 12 months or so, it appears that the government have stuck to their original plan for dealing with the deficit which was to focus on taxation in April and public spending in December.

The next €10bn will be more painful than what we've seen to date, public sector reform might help stave off another cut in public sector pay over the next couple of years i.e. as far as unions will be concerned, reform will be the only game in town if this times cuts are not to be repeated next year and/or the year after

 

[sandrat]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Pass the picket.

Can I work behind closed doors if my office is closed? Shouldnt be too hard to go past the picket seeing as how the picketers sat in a car outside the gate the last day.

 

[Deiseblue]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I think the one thing that is certain is that we'll have at least another €10bn to make up over the next 3 budgets.

Despite all the shaping over the last 12 months or so, it appears that the government have stuck to their original plan for dealing with the deficit which was to focus on taxation in April and public spending in December.

The next €10bn will be more painful than what we've seen to date, public sector reform might help stave off another cut in public sector pay over the next couple of years i.e. as far as unions will be concerned, reform will be the only game in town if this times cuts are not to be repeated next year and/or the year after

The Government may get away with public sector paycuts in the forthcoming budget without precipitating industrial strife but personally I doubt it,
If they continue to target the PS in the future then I feel that we will be plunged into industrial turmoil.
Perhaps the unions best bet at this stage would be to strike not only in protest at the putative cuts in the forthcoming budget but also tolay down a marker in terms of any further cuts ?

 

[Howitzer]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Perhaps the unions best bet at this stage would be to strike not only in protest at the putative cuts in the forthcoming budget but also tolay down a marker in terms of any further cuts ?

What does this actually mean? The last strike was pre-emptive ahead of the Budget and in parallel with discussions on cuts planned for that budget.

Best bet for what? Ultimately would do you want to happen? Things to stay as they are? Ok, then what do you suggest is done to cut the deficit?

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Perhaps the unions best bet at this stage would be to strike not only in protest at the putative cuts in the forthcoming budget but also tolay down a marker in terms of any further cuts ?

Or maybe they could re-engage in reform talks as quickly as possible. The sooner reforms are on the table the less severe the cuts will be in future.

 

[bogle]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Or maybe they could re-engage in reform talks as quickly as possible. The sooner reforms are on the table the less severe the cuts will be in future.

Err excuse me Dude? After all the crap and down right lies that's been posted here and printed in the Sunday & Daily rag over the last few months, you now want to talk?

Really?

David Begg was on the radio at lunch time - said social partnership with this Government is finished, finito, kaputt.

I wonder was it any coincidence that Joan Burton and Leo Varadkar were on at the same time with Begg?

Personally I wouldn't be "going long" on the current holders of public office.

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Err excuse me Dude? After all the crap and down right lies that's been posted here and printed in the Sunday & Daily rag over the last few months, you now want to talk??

Really??

David Begg was on the radio at lunch time - said social partnership with this Government is finished, finito, kaputt.

I wonder was it any coincidence that Joan Burton and Leo Varadkar were on at the same time with Begg?

Personally I wouldn't be "going long" on the current holders of public office.

The unions are not king makers.

Fine Gael are not going to reverse pay cuts, so unless there's a labour majority after the next election there's still a large deficit that will be addressed by cutting the public sector wage bill further.

Looking at it coldly (which the unions and their supporters need to do rather than throw hissy fits) it's going to be reform or face more severe cuts.

Tough one to take for some who've lost all perspective of reality after 15 years of the entitlement culture, but those who realise they're paid to serve the public as efficiently as they can should be ok in the longer term.

 

[liaconn]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Think bigger. Think of the parents who will have to take unpaid leave because their kids school is closed, think of the people who will have medical procedures postponed because of strikes etc etc. More strikes and the common people will turn against ye, not just the media.

Will turn against us? Where have you been living???????? As for thinking bigger. Not a lot of that in evidence over the past few days, particularly from Brian Cowen.

 

[liaconn]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Can I work behind closed doors if my office is closed? Shouldnt be too hard to go past the picket seeing as how the picketers sat in a car outside the gate the last day.

Well do something about it. Put it in writing to your personnel that you are available to work that day and require arrangements put in place to facilitate that. cc it to your parent department and the Department of Finance if necessary. I know in my Department the head office opened and anyone who wanted to report for work, regardless of what building they worked in, was told to turn up there with some work with them and sign in for the day. There was no problem. There was also regional buildings opened for people in those locations. If they're not willing to open a building then you should be entitled to work from home for the day. The fact that these arrangements haven't been made is not the fault of the Union or your striking colleagues, it is a fault at management level.


How many people picketed by sitting in cars during the last strike day? I don't know of any. That's a very unfair comment, tarring everyone with the same brush. If you don't agree with unions or strikes that's your entitlement and you're free to express it. But your colleagues are also entitled to be in a union and strike if they wish. You should recognise their entitlement also.

 

[bogle]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

The unions are not king makers.

Who said they were?
300,000 CS/PS peeps have a vote just like everyone else (maybe you feel they shouldn't)!! A handful of votes can swing a seat either way.

Paycuts for 2010 had already been conceded.
It was actually Varadkar who said that in the event of FG and Lab being in Government that there would still need to be some form of agreement.

 

[S.L.F]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Yes, and I think the Public servants underestimate the extreme anger of the public.

The public have been lead by the nose by a govt that is fighting to stay in power nothing else.

They have wasted untold billions in the last 10 years and expect the public service to bail them out.

They can only go to that well so often.
Any further pay cuts will surely see widespread industrial action allied to what is surely going to become a more and more demotivated Public Sector workforce with a consequential rise in sick leave , a fall in the level of services and in the case of teachers a refusal to involve themselves in extra curricular activities in particular in the sporting arena , I also fear that parent teacher meetings will only be held during school hours.
Next year I think that we are going to see a total reform of our taxation system and we are all going to experience a futher sharing of pain.
Equally I think that the current Government will not be around to deliver the next budget.

Exactly my thoughts, but also a go-slow refusing to answer phones work to rule and all the ways to make the govt sore.

Benchmarking. Government threw money at every vested interest. They forgot they'd have to pay that money year on year, not just once off.
Ireland is incapable of ruling itself. We have 100 years proof of this. So the question is, what are we going to do about it?

The real question is what are the govt going to do about this it's all their doing.

The public service have been demonized now for the last year and are demoralised this is not good for anybody.

If their wages are unjustly cut they will strike.

Election to what end SLF? FG want to cut PS pay too!

If your boss made loads of mistakes and cost the company billions you have the choice of new management who will do what is necessary to get it back on track again what would you do trust the fools who made the mistakes or would you want new management.

How could we. The politics of envy and begrudgery that we've seen over the past few days is shocking. I think many public servants now feel that no matter what we do, it won't be enough and I think there will be a strike.

Yeah they want the public service workers to all suffer unjustly regardless of whether or not they are on big salaries.

Think bigger. Think of the parents who will have to take unpaid leave because their kids school is closed, think of the people who will have medical procedures postponed because of strikes etc etc. More strikes and the common people will turn against ye, not just the media.

Since it is the media that have lead the public by the nose I wouldn't be at all surprised whether or not a solution is found that they will keep the crap up regardless.

The unions are not king makers.

Fine Gael are not going to reverse pay cuts, so unless there's a labour majority after the next election there's still a large deficit that will be addressed by cutting the public sector wage bill further.

Looking at it coldly (which the unions and their supporters need to do rather than throw hissy fits) it's going to be reform or face more severe cuts.

Tough one to take for some who've lost all perspective of reality after 15 years of the entitlement culture, but those who realise they're paid to serve the public as efficiently as they can should be ok in the longer term.

They may not be king makers but they are needed by the govt to get things done

 

[Howitzer]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Err excuse me Dude? After all the crap and down right lies that's been posted here and printed in the Sunday & Daily rag over the last few months, you now want to talk?

Really?

David Begg was on the radio at lunch time - said social partnership with this Government is finished, finito, kaputt.

I wonder was it any coincidence that Joan Burton and Leo Varadkar were on at the same time with Begg?

Personally I wouldn't be "going long" on the current holders of public office.

I'd decided I wasn't going to post here for the foreseeable as it was going to be full of angry PS employees, and they have every right to be angry, but trying to debate with someone who just wants to give out at someone else is pointless.

But ultimately the unions are going to have to get back into negotiations with the Govt. These cuts still don't fix the deficit, they're nowhere close. So what are going to do, sit on our hands till we have to call the IMF in and they sack half the PS and cut the wages of those remaining?

There may be a few clowns on here who would enjoy that prospect but anyone with any sense knows the repercussions that would have.

I wouldn't be taking everything Begg says at face value. He plays the game of rhetoric and bluster as well as anyone.

I heard that interview. He made a strange comment in reference to the 12 days to the effect that it had been reported that Unions had stated the unpaid leave would be made up in the future when in fact they had said nothing of the kind. It was a strange comment because, he was right the unions never did say the days would be made up, but the only time I'd even heard it mentioned was by himself just then. Rhetoric and bluster aimed to deflect blame onto the media.

Where there are factual errors and lies reported rebut them with links to support yourself. Anyone with a half a mind can see the difference.

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Exactly my thoughts, but also a go-slow refusing to answer phones work to rule and all the ways to make the govt sore

except it's not the govt that will be sore.

FF are gone in two years time at the very latest (unless labour pick them over FG!).

Cowen, Harney, Lenihan, etc have all built up good pensions already and have earned big over the last 10 years. Work to rule and striking won't leave them impoverished.

The people who would genuinely suffer are the public, particularly the most vulnerable i.e. those reliant on an fully functioning health service, those reliant on social welfare and children relying on a good education. IN the short to medium term, Public servants can decide that the only way of teaching the current govt a lesson is by creating a country not worth living in I guess, that's entirely up to them.

 

[shnaek]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

If their wages are unjustly cut they will strike.

They've already gone on strike when there was TALK of their wages being cut. If their wages are cut at all they will strike - just or unjust. I don't blame the unions or the PS for this - they operate the same the world over. But we elected the government to govern, and for too long the unions have been puppet masters. Are the government going to govern, or do we not have a democracy here in Ireland?

As I heard a father say to his young girl (no more than 4 years of age) in the supermarket today - life is unfair!

 

[sandrat]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

How many people picketed by sitting in cars during the last strike day? I don't know of any. That's a very unfair comment, tarring everyone with the same brush. If you don't agree with unions or strikes that's your entitlement and you're free to express it. But your colleagues are also entitled to be in a union and strike if they wish. You should recognise their entitlement also.

There were 3 sitting in a car outside my place of work. It was raining and there is no shelter. They only got out of the car when anyone tried to enter the building and informed them it was closed.

 

[liaconn]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Well, what's your issue then?