Pregnant girl looking for abortion money

[truthseeker]

I can't give you a concise definitive answer to that question, which is probably why you pose it but I suspect that if the other animals knew what we do to some of our unborn they'd think we were crazy.

I doubt it, infanticide is common in the animal kingdom - particularly in societies that are hierarchically organised with one Alpha male in charge - a specific example is Gorillas, if a new alpha male takes over the harem he will murder the existing infants in order to bring the females back into an ovulation cycle so that he can impregnate them himself and ensure his genes win out.
Chimpanzees have also been observed to kill infants - but the reason is not as clear.
Certain among the big cats will also kill the weaker newborns rather than waste resources on raising them.

The 'runt' of a dog litter is left to fend for itself rather than waste resourses also.

Nature is red in tooth and claw and all that.......

 

[michaelm]

I believe the Morning After Pill prevents implantation of a fertilised egg (if taken after fertilisation has occured).

Which is also a secondary function of the contraceptive Pill, including the mini-pill. I'm interested in those pro-lifers who accept the Pill, what is the difference?

Is there a question here? I said . .

My understanding is that although both the Contraceptive Pill and Morning After Pill can act as abortifacient they can act to prevent fertilization (on which basis they are licensed in Ireland).

 

[michaelm]

There are others involved in this thread. I am interested in those who think that abortion is wrong but the Pill is ok. As I said the prevention of implantation is the secondary function of the pill, the primary function to prevent fertilisation. There are a great many people who would be against abortion but for the Pill, and I would like to know if anyoe has an opinion on why that is.

I suspect that some who are opposed to abortion do not oppose the Pill on the basis I have suggested, that they are licensed (and taken) with the intention of preventing fertilization.

 

[ailbhe]

I was always pro life, thought abortion was so wrong. Then I got pregnant at 19 with a person who wanted nothing to do with me or the child. Funny how you consider things you never thought you would when you find yourself in that position

I considered abortion and decided it wasn't for me. I also considered adoption and decided the same.
However, 6 years on I am strongly pro choice. Parenthood is hard. Being a single parent is hard. My life has changed beyond recognition, some ways for the better, some not. I adore my daughter but if I am 100% honest I do have some regrets.
I was fortunate that by 19 I had a good education and prospects. I have an amazing family who are so supportive and I manage ok. I cannot imagine how a girl would cope with no support and no prospects.

So while I cannot imagine ever having an abortion, and I have some issues with it, overall I feel that the right to choose is more important.
My daughter was a twin and I miscarried her sibling at 7 weeks. Now i do not look at her at feel upset or sad at the loss of the twin. I feel relief. That may sound harsh and perhaps it is but I am being honest. I could not have imagined having twins and the hardship that would entail. And I didn't have to make that decision, it was made for me so i feel no guilt. In some ways it was for the best as I feel if I had been carrying twins I would have had an abortion.

 

[truthseeker]

I was always pro life, thought abortion was so wrong. Then I got pregnant at 19 with a person who wanted nothing to do with me or the child. Funny how you consider things you never thought you would when you find yourself in that position

I considered abortion and decided it wasn't for me. I also considered adoption and decided the same.
However, 6 years on I am strongly pro choice. Parenthood is hard. Being a single parent is hard. My life has changed beyond recognition, some ways for the better, some not. I adore my daughter but if I am 100% honest I do have some regrets.
I was fortunate that by 19 I had a good education and prospects. I have an amazing family who are so supportive and I manage ok. I cannot imagine how a girl would cope with no support and no prospects.

So while I cannot imagine ever having an abortion, and I have some issues with it, overall I feel that the right to choose is more important.
My daughter was a twin and I miscarried her sibling at 7 weeks. Now i do not look at her at feel upset or sad at the loss of the twin. I feel relief. That may sound harsh and perhaps it is but I am being honest. I could not have imagined having twins and the hardship that would entail. And I didn't have to make that decision, it was made for me so i feel no guilt. In some ways it was for the best as I feel if I had been carrying twins I would have had an abortion.

Thank you Ailbhe, that was a very open post from you. I am interested in the fact that your opinions were actually changed by your own experiences. Without meaning to throw the cat among the pigeons I do wonder if men (not just posting here but generally speaking) can actually relate to this issue in its entirety because it is not something that will ever happen to a mans body. Of course people are still entitled to their opinion whether male or female, but Ailbhe is an example of someone who changed their mind on the issue due to direct experience - something that can never happen to a man.

 

[ailbhe]

I'm not sure. Many men are affected by unplanned pregnancies though in essence they have a choice, the same choice that abortion gives a woman.
A man can choose to walk away, not be involved (except financially and some don't do that either). If they do they must live with the "what ifs" and guilt and sense of wondering and perhaps regret. But they have the choice. Be involved or don't.

A woman has the choice of continuing with the pregnancy, abortion or adoption. If she chooses abortion or adoption then she lives with the same what ifs, guilt, wondering etc.

However the difference in essence is that if a man walks he can walk back. If a man chooses not to be involved and the woman has the child, if the man changes his mind then he can make contact and try to build a relationship with the child. For a woman either adoption or abortion is final, there is no going back from either.

Personally I knew I could not carry and give birth to a child and hand it over. That would have killed me and I don't think I ever would have been "right" again. I would have driven myself insane with thinking about it. I know myself and I know how it would have been, and that is why my options were abortion or keeping the child.
It was the hardest choice I ever had to make and neither choice was wrong or right, both had their ups and downs...It is not a decision that is made lightly and I resent when people assume that anyone who has an abortion does so in a callous way. Just like "oh i'll have an abortion".
Maybe there are some out there who do but for most it is a difficult decision. Beyond difficult.

 

[truthseeker]

However the difference in essence is that if a man walks he can walk back. If a man chooses not to be involved and the woman has the child, if the man changes his mind then he can make contact and try to build a relationship with the child. For a woman either adoption or abortion is final, there is no going back from either.

Thats an absolutely excellent point Ailbhe - Id never thought of it that way before.

 

[Purple]

Excellent and brave post Ailbhe. It is a great example of how this issue is not black and white.
Can I ask what your opinion is on the what the fathers rights should be (if any) when abortion is being considered. I have always had sympathy with a guy in the scenario where the mother has an abortion but he wants to keep the baby (though I don’t know how often, if ever, it happens).

 

[ailbhe]

Also to point out that I don't feel that men have it easy either.
In the case of an unplanned pregnancy a man is pretty much powerless which is terrible. Either he loses a child he wanted (abortion) or is forced to have a child he doesn't want and be financially responsible for it.

There are no winners in the case of unplanned pregnancies. Just a lot of pain and difficult decisions and hard choices.
however, while i think it is awful that men are powerless I think that the decision has to lie with the female. A woman cannot and should not be forced to be a parent and give birth.
On the flip side, that case with the embryos where the woman wanted to use them and the man didn't? I felt he shouldn't be forced to be a parent and she shouldn't be allowed use them.

 

[michaelm]

I do wonder if men (not just posting here but generally speaking) can actually relate to this issue in its entirety because it is not something that will ever happen to a mans body.

Abortion is not a women's issue, it's a societal issue.

Ailbhe is an example of someone who changed their mind on the issue due to direct experience.

Indeed, people's experiences can change their view on things. Like a pro-life talk I was at where one speaker previously worked in a abortion clinic and was now firmly pro-life or pro-choice people I know who, following the birth of their children, are now pro-life. I don't think one needs to be abused as a child to oppose child abuse.

 

[ailbhe]

Abortion is not a women's issue, it's a societal issue.

I would have to disagree. I think it is all about the person who finds themselves in that position and not really anything to do with society as a whole. It is about the person and their circumstances and their decisions.But then, I am coming at it from a personal point of view.

And as we cannot have abortion on a case by case basis, we either have it or don't. Alas, here we don't which causes undue stress and anguish for those who decide to have an abortion. on the issue of late term abortions, did you know that a woman who gives an Irish address to a clinic has to wait until 12 weeks to have the procedure even if they know they are pregnant at 6 weeks? This means they do not have the option of the least invasive option of the "tablet". They must wait until 12 weeks and have the more invasive procedure.
So our laws are protecting the unborn but harming the women of this country in my opinion.

 

[MrMan]

So our laws are protecting the unborn but harming the women of this country in my opinion.

The law doesn't harm women, their own decisions harm them.

 

[michaelm]

And as we cannot have abortion on a case by case basis, we either have it or don't.

I would agree with this.

So our laws are protecting the unborn but harming the women of this country in my opinion.

And entirely disagree with this.

 

[ailbhe]

The law doesn't harm women, their own decisions harm them.

In your opinion. In mine the women are making a decision which is difficult but which they believe is for the best and having made that decision they are being forced to jump through hoops and put themselves through a lot simply because of a law, which lets face it, is outdated.

 

[ailbhe]

And entirely disagree with this.

But who says whether we have it or not? When was the last vote on abortion? Why has there been no vote in the last few years. Times are changing and those of us who are facing these decisions were too young to vote in the last referendum on abortion. Those who are older now, more than likely secure financially and emotionally are the ones making the decisions for young women. When will we get our chance to have our say?

 

[MrMan]

In your opinion. In mine the women are making a decision which is difficult but which they believe is for the best and having made that decision they are being forced to jump through hoops and put themselves through a lot simply because of a law, which lets face it, is outdated.

So change the law to suit yourself is it? You live in a country that has a law and complain when you have leave to get around it.

 

[truthseeker]

Abortion is not a women's issue, it's a societal issue.

Would have to disagree with this.

Indeed, people's experiences can change their view on things. Like a pro-life talk I was at where one speaker previously worked in a abortion clinic and was now firmly pro-life or pro-choice people I know who, following the birth of their children, are now pro-life. I don't think one needs to be abused as a child to oppose child abuse.

Im not suggesting men should not have an opinion - I asked could they ever relate to the issue fully though? I still dont think that they can given that no man will ever find himself in the position of being left pregnant without a partner.

 

[MrMan]

But who says whether we have it or not? When was the last vote on abortion? Why has there been no vote in the last few years. Times are changing and those of us who are facing these decisions were too young to vote in the last referendum on abortion. Those who are older now, more than likely secure financially and emotionally are the ones making the decisions for young women. When will we get our chance to have our say?

I would imagine that women from an older generation would say that the choices on offer for them were far starker than for the current generation and that they would be more than capable of understanding the needs of the current problems women today face. Would the younger women even get out and vote? should the many underage mothers also go out and vote and do you think that all young mothers actually regret the fact that they had their children?

 

[Purple]

Whether you are pro-life or not, you must admit that whatever strictures or legislation is put in place, abortion is a fact of life.

This is true of lots of things that society deems to be undesirable and illegal. The fact that they happen anyway is not an arguement for legalising them. I am not commenting on abortion, just making a general point.

 

[Caveat]

So change the law to suit yourself is it? You live in a country that has a law and complain when you have leave to get around it.

Ah come on MrMan - this is unlike you.

Are you saying if you don't like the law live somewhere else?