Lisbon defeated what happens next ?

Nemesis said:
They grumble and moan but it's no big deal.
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Maybe they're afraid to do much more - if the eurocrats are as vindictive as the Yes side have been making out, who in their right minds would cross them?
 
Elected to local parliaments, not EU positions. Did we directly elect our representative at council of ministers specifically to that role?
 
rmelly said:
Elected to local parliaments, not EU positions. Did we directly elect our representative at council of ministers specifically to that role?
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We don't directly elect the Taoiseach, we elect representatives who choose our Taoiseach for us. The Taoiseach then choosers our ministers for us. Everyone should understand that these ministers will represent us at the Council. So no, we didn't directly vote our representative to that role, but then we didn't elect them to their role in the Irish cabinet either.

According to your logic, we should we get pick our Taoiseach, or our Finance minister.
 
rmelly said:
More scaremongering - you guys will never learn...
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I have no reason to scaremonger. The vote is over.

rmelly said:
Have you forgotten the French & Dutch No votes? Did the world fall apart? There WILL be a Plan 'C'. And maybe it will be a democratic one.
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France is a very different player to Ireland in this. The Netherlands was covered somewhat from negative consequnces by the French voting before them. I am genuinely very concerned about what has happened and where this leaves us. I'm glad you're so confident and secure about the outcome. Time will tell.
 
rmelly said:
Maybe they're afraid to do much more - if the eurocrats are as vindictive as the Yes side have been making out, who in their right minds would cross them?
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Oh god. The poor little dears are afraid. Why? Is it the secret police of those big bad states that will take them away in the night if they express dissent?
 
Nemesis said:
I have no reason to scaremonger. The vote is over.


where this leaves us. I'm glad you're so confident and secure about the outcome. Time will tell.
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"where this leaves us" is exactly where we were a few days ago,except now the EU will have to come back to us with a better deal. there is noting at all worry about......i think you will find there is always a plan B...thats how the world works!
 
shanegl said:
We don't directly elect the Taoiseach, we elect representatives who choose our Taoiseach for us. The Taoiseach then choosers our ministers for us. Everyone should understand that these ministers will represent us at the Council. So no, we didn't directly vote our representative to that role, but then we didn't elect them to their role in the Irish cabinet either.

According to your logic, we should we get pick our Taoiseach, or our Finance minister.
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Well said. The NO side portray "these unelected Eurocrats" as people trying to subvert the whole democratic process but really all it does show is that they completely lack an understanding of what representative democracy is.
 
Nemesis said:
I am genuinely very concerned about what has happened and where this leaves us. I'm glad you're so confident and secure about the outcome. Time will tell.
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If this isn't scaremongering, I don't know what is.
 
starlite68 said:
"where this leaves us" is exactly where we were a few days ago,except now the EU will have to come back to us with a better deal. there is noting at all worry about......i think you will find there is always a plan B...thats how the world works!
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You honestly think the world works like that? One small country on the periphery of Europe can frustrate the plans of 26 democratic states to move forward. If that is what happens then it makes Europe look like a joke to the other powerful blocs in the world like Russia, China, USA etc. That's certainly not good when Europe is at the mercy of a very unpredictable and undemocratic Russia for much of its energy needs. Oh of course, I can't talk about things like that cos I'm scaremongering. I can only talk about positive outcomes from a No vote otherwise those who voted No will get upset.
 
Nemesis said:
Oh of course, I can't talk about things like that cos I'm scaremongering. I can only talk about positive outcomes from a No vote otherwise those who voted No will get upset.
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Any we can't question the Almighty Treaty - we should be ashamed of ourselves for doubting and questioning our betters in Brussels.
 
From the looks of things Russia is a bit more democratic than the EU - at least they go through the pretence of running elections and giving the people the appearance of democracy.
 
[quote=Nemesis;64880 One small country on the periphery of Europe can frustrate the plans of 26 democratic states to move forward.
according to reports comming out of europe yesterday...many in these countries were very happy we voted NO...explain that?
 
This vote proves one thing. The EU needs reform. Imagine the Irish people having a veto at the United Nations. Strange we accept resolutions in that quarter which actually do comit us to military action and we never dream of putting them to referendum.

The Catch 22 for the EU is how do you get Ireland to vote that in future its vote won't be necessary?
 
starlite68 said:
according to reports comming out of europe yesterday...many in these countries were very happy we voted NO...explain that?
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And those same countries are still moving forward with the ratification of the Lisbon treaty today. oops. Someone should tell Gerry A and Mr Ganley that it's tough to negotiate "a better deal for Ireland" when no one in interested in renegotiating.
 
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