Lisbon defeated what happens next ?
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Geraldine2
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
Perhaps the core founder members (France, Germany, Italy and Benelux) and Spain may think about refounding a new Europe on their own. Just an idea!
Perhaps the core founder members (France, Germany, Italy and Benelux) and Spain may think about refounding a new Europe on their own. Just an idea!
aircobra19
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
Maybe they'll finish it before asking people to vote on it next time.
Maybe they'll finish it before asking people to vote on it next time.
truthseeker
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
Mrs Doyle Democracy: Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on.......
Mrs Doyle Democracy: Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on.......
Ceist Beag
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Z
z105
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
I personally think there is a huge protest vote in the result, I get the impression that people are fed up with not just the Government but the "opposition" parties also, they are sick of the lack of true representation and the way citizens of Ireland are being treated. The arrogance has to stop, maybe they'll sit up and listen. IMO it's a wider issue than just the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
I personally think there is a huge protest vote in the result, I get the impression that people are fed up with not just the Government but the "opposition" parties also, they are sick of the lack of true representation and the way citizens of Ireland are being treated. The arrogance has to stop, maybe they'll sit up and listen. IMO it's a wider issue than just the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
G
Guest117
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
Fully agree - this is not a vote against Lisbon but rather a vote against the arogance of Fianna Fail.
We were all told 12 months ago ( especially by our now taoiseach ) that we had to vote Fianna Fail because no other party could safeguard the strong economy and the celtic tiger etc. What a big load of Fianna Fail Bullocks
FF have told us that Lisbon cannot be renogiated if we vote NO - Let's see if this is yet another lie
Fully agree - this is not a vote against Lisbon but rather a vote against the arogance of Fianna Fail.
We were all told 12 months ago ( especially by our now taoiseach ) that we had to vote Fianna Fail because no other party could safeguard the strong economy and the celtic tiger etc. What a big load of Fianna Fail Bullocks
FF have told us that Lisbon cannot be renogiated if we vote NO - Let's see if this is yet another lie
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aircobra19
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
I think there was an element of, this is a dogs dinner, go away and try harder next time.
I think there was an element of, this is a dogs dinner, go away and try harder next time.
Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
Regretably enough people in the country actually believed them...I see Mickey Martin is now trying to hang on a lack of information..wonder is he trying to hang Referendum Commission?
Regretably enough people in the country actually believed them...I see Mickey Martin is now trying to hang on a lack of information..wonder is he trying to hang Referendum Commission?
Brouhahaha
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Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
If people voted no because of this then they need to seriously get their priorities straightened. It was a treaty that affected 500m people and should have been considered on its merits. Rejecting it or accepting it has serious repercussions and to belittle it to some kind of kick in the shin for Cowen is daft.
If people voted no because of this then they need to seriously get their priorities straightened. It was a treaty that affected 500m people and should have been considered on its merits. Rejecting it or accepting it has serious repercussions and to belittle it to some kind of kick in the shin for Cowen is daft.
Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
He certainly seems to be trying to hang them. They provided the information as per their remit. It isn't their job to campaign for a yes vote. It is there job to provide a balanced referendum. FF in particular had the task of campaigning for a yes vote, the failure is theirs in particular. They approached the voters in arrogance and have been burnt for it. It isn't sufficient to present as your over-arching argument that "it will be embarrassing" or "the rest of the EU won't like us" or similar arguments, they aren't arguments and they aren't for anything. FF ran a Yes campaign which seemed to consist of, at best, reasons not to vote no rather than reasons to vote yes. As I said elsewhere, the best Yes campaign advertisement I saw was the one that Prionsias De Rossa put out, in it he listed reasons to vote yes and better still he cross-referenced them to the treaty and the rights charter. I know he isn't in the Dáil but why was the opposition putting forward a better argument than the government?
He certainly seems to be trying to hang them. They provided the information as per their remit. It isn't their job to campaign for a yes vote. It is there job to provide a balanced referendum. FF in particular had the task of campaigning for a yes vote, the failure is theirs in particular. They approached the voters in arrogance and have been burnt for it. It isn't sufficient to present as your over-arching argument that "it will be embarrassing" or "the rest of the EU won't like us" or similar arguments, they aren't arguments and they aren't for anything. FF ran a Yes campaign which seemed to consist of, at best, reasons not to vote no rather than reasons to vote yes. As I said elsewhere, the best Yes campaign advertisement I saw was the one that Prionsias De Rossa put out, in it he listed reasons to vote yes and better still he cross-referenced them to the treaty and the rights charter. I know he isn't in the Dáil but why was the opposition putting forward a better argument than the government?
Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
This approach would be consistent with the search for a person to hang in other issues such as child sex cases and those issues which led to the Travers Report.
This approach would be consistent with the search for a person to hang in other issues such as child sex cases and those issues which led to the Travers Report.
Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
Well the unpalatable alternative to someone else being to blame is that FF are at fault
which clearly is not to be countenanced
(I know they aren't the only Yes side but they were by far the worst offenders, instead of insightful articles and arguments from Garret Fitzgerald and his ilk as well as reasoned and well founded information from Labour we had a surfeit of people like Bertie telling us not to embarrass them)
Well the unpalatable alternative to someone else being to blame is that FF are at fault
which clearly is not to be countenanced (I know they aren't the only Yes side but they were by far the worst offenders, instead of insightful articles and arguments from Garret Fitzgerald and his ilk as well as reasoned and well founded information from Labour we had a surfeit of people like Bertie telling us not to embarrass them)
Re: Lisbon defeated what happens next.
It would be almost impossible to outline the reasons why the Treaty was voted down - a lot of local and national issues not related to the Lisbon Treaty per se have been used as a protest vote ( e.g hospital protest committees, fishermen complaining about high fuel prices, parts of Limerick not wanting to be part of the Kerry electoral constituency etc).
What didn't help either was the Government asking us to trust them on this Lisbon issue while we had to listen to the daily relevations from Dublin Castle about sterling lodgements and horserace winnings !!
Trust is a two way street.
It would be almost impossible to outline the reasons why the Treaty was voted down - a lot of local and national issues not related to the Lisbon Treaty per se have been used as a protest vote ( e.g hospital protest committees, fishermen complaining about high fuel prices, parts of Limerick not wanting to be part of the Kerry electoral constituency etc).
What didn't help either was the Government asking us to trust them on this Lisbon issue while we had to listen to the daily relevations from Dublin Castle about sterling lodgements and horserace winnings !!
Trust is a two way street.
Z
z103
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Which were?
You should have spoiled your vote. Put a tick in both boxes.
One major mistake the 'Yes' side made, was to inform people to spoil votes if they were unsure, not just vote 'No'.
I concur that if you want to register a protest at your options a spoilt vote indicates this whereas not voting simply registers indifference (or laziness some would say)
On the other points you have made... Huh? Firstly I saw no information from either campaign but certainly not from the yes telling people to spoil votes if they were unsure, can you please provide some reference material to back up your contention?
On the second point, why in heaven's name would the YES campaign tell anyone to vote NO. LOGICALLY what would happen if someone indicated they were unsure is they would ask why and try to explain away their fears. What sort of person would tell you to vote NO when they want to you vote YES?
aircobra19
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What specifically in the treaty directly effects our tax, or introduce tax harmonisation?
Hmm, and IBEC and the IDA etc. who would have the greatest interest in protecting our corporate tax regime, were sooooo against the treaty? I think mayhap you listened to propoganda without investigating what lay behind it.