Wreckless driving...

far from being what it was originally intended, it has become a women vs men issue
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And what did you originally intend? A consensus on what bad drivers women are?

the double standards that relate to wider debates on subjects like this
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I'm not sure what you base this on, I think it might be because an earlier poster said something about male drivers and nobody immediately leapt to their defence. Did you consider that as the thread was originally started by you with an insinuation against women drivers, and as most replies referred to that question, that people simply overlooked this post? Whereas you take one post to be the proof of a double standard. I think you are wrong and I think if you look over the posts of the other people who replied to this thread that most were careful not to make a sweeping generalisation about men.

and the immediate belief by many posters that if you have a pop at women you're chauvanistic and ignorant
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Once again, Gabriel, I have to point out to you that you are the one accusing others of accusing you of being chauvinistic and sexist and now ignorant.

but regardless of whether you're male or female you're welcome to have a pop at male drivers (even if those criticisms don't have data to back them up).
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Pot/kettle/ wrong in any case. Do I have to spell it out?

For me it also shows that people don't seem to want to discuss anything without verifiable data to support it....
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And theres something wrong with that because....? I suppose because it stops rants or sweeping generalisations in their tracks. I won't apologise for calling on you to submit evidence to back up your claim that women in general are bad drivers. I would think that that is an entirely rational thing to ask.
 
How about the discussion is restrained to "women do things that men would not do while driving" ? Then we could debate the intended issue without getting safety/recklesslness etc into the discussion. (And anyone that wants to debate "men do things that women don't do while driving" can set up a separate post!)
 
Hi Vanilla,

Vanilla said:
And what did you originally intend? A consensus on what bad drivers women are?
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Actually no Vanilla. But it's turned that way.

I originally intended to have a rant about the near accident I was in. Which is what I did.
The argument turned to women drivers when you asked me the question about the common denominator I was referring to. My mistake I suppose for half opening the can of worms...



Vanilla said:
I'm not sure what you base this on, I think it might be because an earlier poster said something about male drivers and nobody immediately leapt to their defence.
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No no...not at all. If you'd been paying attention to anything I've been saying all day you would have seen that I was referring to multiple instances of double standards throughout this topic.
Fobs for instance has made numerous references to young male drivers tailgating, amongst other offences. There is no verifiable data to back this up is there? Let me ask you...would you agree with this point of view?

Vanilla said:
Once again, Gabriel, I have to point out to you that you are the one accusing others of accusing you of being chauvinistic and sexist and now ignorant.
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Well...perhaps. Without knowing it maybe we all have sexist tendencies. Mine are no more overt than anyone elses. We could get into a philosophical debate about that but I don't believe anyone is completely non-sexist in some small way. It's in our genes (in relative quantities).

However, I'm getting off the point. What I'm merely doing is countering the finger pointing. The finger has been duly pointed at me for having a go at women drivers without verifiable evidence to back it up (and the insinuation made that I'm chauvanistic, sexist and/or ignorant). Yet when I point the finger back and add that no one (not once) asked anyone else for evidence of 'young male tailgating' for instance everyone gets all uppity. Just because I started the thread doesn't mean everything has to be directed at me now does it?



To recap what I originally said about women drivers...



I went on to qualify that this was my experience over ten years and that the majority of these poor driving skills were to be seen in day to day traffic. Rush hour conditions if you will.

To start with you started quoting statistical data on car crashes/deaths to me....completely missing the point.
Every point made is made relative to the context of the conversation. Perhaps I should have spelt that out more plainly. By using the term 'bad drivers' I was not referring to speeding and or car crashes. Statistically men cause more serious car accidents. That's a given.

However, that's not what I was referring to...now was it?
Let's take one point then shall we and be really, really anal about it. Spatial awareness.

Here's an article that recounts certain research proving that men are better at spatial tasks than women.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2405/is_n1_v125/ai_20602762
 
Vanilla said:
Yes, because that would be balanced.... ( ah here!)
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Yes, it WOULD be balanced - everybody would be addressing one subject - and I would have no problem contributing to a "male driver" thread and agreeing that for the most part, men are more reckless and more prone to taking risks than women.
 
I am quite surprised that this debate has generated so much heat and so little light.

People seem to be having difficulty reconciling two propositions: on the one hand, many believe women to be worse than men in driving ability; On the other hand, people seem to accept that men are somehow more dangerous on the road, this being "proved" by the fact that men have more accidents.

There are more men on the road; their average journey is longer. Accidents per mile travelled needs to be included in any meaningful analysis. (Of course, it is not the only relevant parameter, and I don't know how it should be weighted in an analysis, but it is one which helps explain the apparent contradiction between perceived standards and crash statistics)

From UK Department of Transport website:

"It is reported that women make fewer and shorter trips as a car driver compared to their male counterparts (DETR, 1998). This is reflected in the ratio of mileage driven per annum between the genders given in Table 3. Comparing the ratio of annual mileage with that for collision involvement as a driver, female drivers account for a quarter of total mileage but a third of all injury accidents. This leads to the conclusion that women are more likely to be the driver in an injury crash per mile driven. Only in the youngest age group (17-20 years) are men more likely to be involved in a collision than their female counterpart. It should be noted that this exposure data does not apportion blame for the occurrence of a collision."


Here is the link:

[broken link removed]

I might as well add my own anecdotal views: the differences (whatever they may be) between male and female drivers do not seem that huge to me. It is the young drivers who scare me. And if I am allowed some small bias, it is the young males in particular - the aggression and risk taking manifest in far too many of them has not lost its ability to shock me.
 
I don't see the boy racers after the pubs close as I live in Dublin and don't get out much (3 small kids). But I do drive a lot during the day in a business capacity. I do about 400 miles a week. When I am on the road it is 30-60 year old men in 4x4's that I watch out for as in my experience they can drive at very high speeds (100 MPH+) on motorways and duel carriageways. Everyone’s experiences differ, I will probably not be aware of others who have the same bad habits that I have and this may be the case with others.
I do find that I get annoyed by other drivers and it is usually women who do the annoying but that probably has more to do with my impatience (which equates to bad driving) than their lack of spatial awareness or whatever other evolutionary hindrance they have!!
 
Hi, I'm joining in a bit late here but I agree with the original point, that it can be infuriating when somebody does something dangerous on the road and just drives off.
A friend of mine was out running (in Shannon) along the inside lane off the hard shoulder, and a girl was driving towards him in a Punto. He said to himself "she must see me" it was broad daylight, and he was jogging along. The stupid girl shouldn't have been driving in the hard shoulder in the first place! So, anywho, she starts getting closer and closer and then he started getting worried that she didn't see him, so made a few arm movements. Nope, she drove straight for him, he actually said her eyes looked glazed over, and he had to jump out of her way, she only just missed him!
To cut a long story short, his foot got jammed in the embankment and bust up his leg severly and was left at the side of the road waving for help in agony for over an hour before somebody stopped.
His dreams of running the marathon were ruined, he spent months in plaster and his leg will never be the same. And she drove off unaware.
 
I agree with you Priscilla that this type of driving is terrible and people use the hard shoulder not for the purpose it was intended .But it wasn't the gender of the driver that was important it was the drivers behaviour that was and it was appalling.
 
fobs said:
it wasn't the gender of the driver that was important it was the drivers behaviour that was and it was appalling.
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Absolutely. But had the gender of the driver been different in this case, the person may have been more aware of what was actually going on hence Pricillas comment:

Pricilla said:
And she drove off unaware..
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