Wreckless driving...

[Humpback]

In my driving experience ( longer than yours ) I have not found 'women in cars doing incredibly stupid things' to be prevalent.

A country road, 3pm in the afternoon. Single line of traffic through a "twisty" section of about 4-5miles.

Driving behind a locally registered car at constant 100kph, driven by a woman driver - I know because she overtook me previously on a single white line just prior to the twisty bit. Was obviously a local and wanted to "make time" by not being behind non-local car, mine, for the upcoming twisty bit.

No problems there. Progress for a mile or so.

Suddenly, and without any obvious reason, car slowed down to 50-55kph. No change in road conditions, or speed limits.

Went on for about a mile, and I decided to "politely" flash a couple of times to remind her that she was holding up quite a considerable line of traffic at this stage.

I kid you not but she held out in her left hand her mobile phone and waved it around for me to see as if to say "can't you see, I'm on the phone".........

 

[CCOVICH]

I would have thought that everyone should aspire to wreckless driving .

 

[Gabriel]

I would have thought that everyone should aspire to wreckless driving .

Yes...I should have said earlier when Seagull mentioned it. Wreckless was a play on words referring to the ability to keep your car intact whilst noting and avoiding the gombeens around you.

 

[Vanilla]

I'm not referring to car crashes, deaths or drink driving.

Oh , I see, you are NOT referring to the above, yet still women are worse drivers than men, even though it is statistically proven that men cause more crashes etc etc.

If you want to call me a chauvanist then that's your prerogative. No skin off my nose.

I didn't, I asked you if you were, based on the definition quoted. There is a difference.

but a lot of people agree with me.

Yes, indeed, despite statistical evidence to the contrary. I wonder why this is so? Could it be because these type of anecdotal references you make are so common?

Sorry Vanilla, I have no interest in arguing your experiences versus mine. They obviously differ.

I quoted my experiences since this whole thread seems to be based only on anecdotal evidence- therefore mine should be equally as relevant as yours or anyone elses. And if you are going to make such a sweeping statement about one gender, then you should at least expect to be challenged on it, even if it is only on the same grounds that you are making that allegation ( i.e. personal experience).

In relation to Ronan D John, I note your one experience that you have quoted, and I have no reason to doubt that this is an accurate account of what happened. As a complete aside, have you considered the possibility that the reason this lady was waving her mobile phone at you was because she thought she was experiencing a road rage incident ( rightly or wrongly) and was warning you that she would call the guards?

And CCOVICH, based on Gabriels second last post, it appears that he is indeed referring to wreckless driving rather than reckless driving.

 

[MissRibena]

I definitely don't agree that women are the "stupid" or ill-mannered drivers on the road and I too drive around 400 miles a week and have been doing so a little over ten years. What I believe is that people who are already prejudiced about women drivers will pay more attention to who is driving the car when a mistake is made and take notice only when the evidence backs up their prejudices. I've even seen my own boyfriend do this.

It is interesting that more than one (presumably male) poster here has admitted to some kind of intimidating behaviour in response to something "stupid" a woman has done but fail to see anything stupid or reckless in that. Ring the Garda hotline and report if you have problem with someone's driving - you are not the traffic police and it's not up to you to "politely" (lovely manners!) request someone to up their speed from 50-55mph the couple of miles to the speed limit on a road with "twisty bits" and single white lines; mobile phone or not. If you don't want to report it, let it go. You are only making yourself angry and distracted a liability on the road yourself.

I'm just waiting on the thread about the new EU members driving habits/lack of insurance/blah blah blah to start, seeing as this is Vent Your Driving Prejudice Day.

Rebecca

 

[Gabriel]

Oh , I see, you are NOT referring to the above, yet still women are worse drivers than men, even though it is statistically proven that men cause more crashes etc etc.

Re-read my previous post where I pointed out the type of driving I'm referring to.

I didn't, I asked you if you were, based on the definition quoted. There is a difference.

I see...ahem...you didn't say I was a chauvanist, you were asking me if I was a chauvanist?

Maybe you'd like to ask Bamhan the same question?

I wonder why this is so? Could it be because these type of anecdotal references you make are so common?

I don't see your point?

And if you are going to make such a sweeping statement about one gender, then you should at least expect to be challenged on it, even if it is only on the same grounds that you are making that allegation ( i.e. personal experience).

How exactly does that work then? I don't really see that. In ten years this has been "my" experience. So are you challenging "my" experience, statistical facts in relation to road deaths and incidents, or just the fact that you don't like the fact I've picked on women drivers in this manner?

And CCOVICH, based on Gabriels second last post, it appears that he is indeed referring to wreckless driving rather than reckless driving.

Actually, I was referring to both.

 

[Murt10]

Got this from the Garda website.

"If you witness dangerous driving, suspected drunken driving etc., call the Gardaí on 999 or 112, or on Traffic Watch Lo-call 1890 205805. Try to get the make, colour and registration number of the vehicle and the direction in which it is heading. Don't leave it to others to call us - your call could save a life."


Might be worth keying that no into your mobile. She may have been pissed as a knewt or as high as a kite or whatever.




Murt

 

[RainyDay]

Got this from the Garda website.

"If you witness dangerous driving, suspected drunken driving etc., call the Gardaí on 999 or 112, or on Traffic Watch Lo-call 1890 205805. Try to get the make, colour and registration number of the vehicle and the direction in which it is heading. Don't leave it to others to call us - your call could save a life."


Might be worth keying that no into your mobile. She may have been pissed as a knewt or as high as a kite or whatever.

Good advice, but note that for the Gardai to proceed with any prosecution, you'll need to be prepared to call into the station where the offence occured and give a full statement.

 

[Sarah W]

I think bad drivers tend to be women over 40 and men over about 55 and anyone who drives a BMW!

So I either have to have a sex change for the next 15 years or buy a different make of car? Ho hum, a Merc it is then

But seriously, I've been driving since I was 17 and have only had one, very minor, bump in all those decades. I know it's a very old argument but if women drivers are as bad as you all seem to claim why is my insurance cheaper than yours?

Sarah

www.rea.ie

 

[fobs]

I think a lot of the repsonses to people doing foolish things on the road as a form of road rage! If someone makes a mistake on the road what purpose is served by flashing them and beeping your horn or overtaking them and making rude hand gestures? If a person is not an experienced driver then this can only have an even more negative effect on their driving as it will intimidate them into making futher mistakes.

I can understand a person beeping or flashing someone as a preventative measure (i.e stop them coming out at a junction) but after the fact it serves no purpose!
This type of over the top reaction is definately behaviour I see that can be mostly attributed to men.

I think both male and female driver makes mistakes on the road but the majority of dangerous driving is committted by men as statistics and higher insurance premiums would prove.

The original incident was not caused because the driver was a woman but because the driver made a mistake. Their gender didn't casue the accident to occur!

 

[Gabriel]

I think a lot of the repsonses to people doing foolish things on the road as a form of road rage! If someone makes a mistake on the road what purpose is served bflashing them and beeping your horn or overtaking them and making rude hand gestures.
If a person is not an experienced driver then this can only have an even more negative effect on their driving as it will intimidate them into making futher mistakes.
I can understand a person beeping or flashing someonew as a preventative measure (i.e stop them coming out at a junction) but after the fact it serves no purpose!
This is definately behaviour I see that can be mostly attributed to men.

I think both male and female driver makes mistakes on the road but the majority of dangerous driving is committted by men as statistics and higher insurance premiums would prove.

The original incident was not caused because the driver was a woman but because the driver made a mistake. Their gender didn't casue the accident to occur!

Yeah...see how you feel after your heart enters your throat area and you've jumped up and down on your brakes in an effort to not kill yourself and the driver in question just drives off wihout a care in the world.
Calling my reaction to that road rage is all well and good but she deserved every ounce of it...and more. I was livid afterwards.
Should I instead have driven on with a smile on my face? I don't think so...

I don't care if she was experienced or not. She needed to be told, in no uncertain terms, that she nearly killed me. Hopefully my message got through and she'll bother to take a look right and left next time she comes out of her entrance in the mornings.

Also, you can be as politically correct as you like...and I alluded to that earlier. I'm talking about my experiences. If you want to believe I'm biased and backing up my own prejudices blah blah then that's for you to decide.
That's what people who don't agree with it tend to say to be honest.
Personally, if you can't see this type of behaviour, mainly from women, on the road then you're either choosing to ignore it or you're oblivious to it. That's my take on it.

Last week I was driving home through Sandymount (again) and turning off the Simmonscourt road. There was someone trying to turn onto it and traffic piling up behind him. The car blocking him had about 6-7 feet between her and the car in front. Do you think she'd inch forward for him? I saw the whole thing...he waved to her and asked her (nicely) to edge forward and she just turned her head and sat there....not moving. Day in day out I see all sorts of strange behaviour like this. No road courtesy, no awareness of stuff going on. No use of mirrors when making a lane change...

Lol...how popular am I now?!!!

 

[Vanilla]

Two points, the first is that the only evidence offered here to support the original tenet is anecdotal. The evidence I have offered to support the opposite is based on fact.


Secondly,

I see...ahem...you didn't say I was a chauvanist, you were asking me if I was a chauvanist?

You seem to be trying to make what was a tongue in cheek remark into a personal attack on you. Could this be because your argument is weak and you wish to detract from it?

 

[Gabriel]

Two points, the first is that the only evidence offered here to support the original tenet is anecdotal. The evidence I have offered to support the opposite is based on fact.


Secondly,


You seem to be trying to make what was a tongue in cheek remark into a personal attack on you. Could this be because your argument is weak and you wish to detract from it?

Vanilla,

I'm sorry that you can't read my posts. If you go back and review them you'll see I was NOT referring to road death/crash statistics. I think I've mentioned that a number of times. I don't think I can make that any clearer for you.

And yes...I already qualified that I'm having a rant based on "MY EXPERIENCES".

The evidence you have offered is for another debate altogether..

As for my argument? I'm having a rant Vanilla. This has been my experince driving in Dublin over the past ten years. And it's not just my experience. And it's not just the experience of men. Lots of women will say the same thing (as some have already done here).

You're out to prove a point Vanilla but you're on your own I'm afraid. I'm not offering statistical analysis to back up my assertions...unless you can point me to some statistics on spatial awareness whilst driving and basic road courtesy and a pie chart of how men/women cope better with putting on makeup whilst driving or understand the concept of lanes!!?

 

[Vanilla]

You're out to prove a point Vanilla but you're on your own I'm afraid.

Wrong on two counts, firstly I'm out to disprove your point, and secondly it appears I'm not on my own, either factually or anecdotally.

You can have a rant all you want, but as I said, if you are going to make sweeping statements about one gender you should expect to be challenged.

Your argument would also be strengthened if you could back it up factually but it appears you do not intend to even try to do that.

 

[Diziet]

Interesting thread - I'd say good driving is the type that doesn't get you and other people killed. So the facts are that young men are significanly worse drivers than anyone else, women included. And all the spatial awareness in the world does not help if you lose control of the car at 100mph.

On the anecdotal level, the evidence is that this kind of experience is notoriously unreliable. If you expect that women are the worse drivers, you will find plenty of examples, ditto for men. It is not what happens out there, but the way one notices and experiences things. Rant all you like; if it's just an rant justifiable only on a personal level, then OK. But there is no verifiable factual basis.

 

[Gabriel]

Wrong on two counts, firstly I'm out to disprove your point, and secondly it appears I'm not on my own, either factually or anecdotally.

Yes...except you're trying to disprove my point with erroneous data that is not based on what I'm talking about.

You can have a rant all you want, but as I said, if you are going to make sweeping statements about one gender you should expect to be challenged.

And if you can show me data or statistics that are relevant to MY argument then that'll be great.

Your argument would also be strengthened if you could back it up factually but it appears you do not intend to even try to do that.

Like I just said...point me in the direction of this data please...

 

[Vanilla]

And if you can show me data or statistics that are relevant to MY argument then that'll be great.

If I could do that, I'd hardly be disagreeing with you, would I?

As I stated, it appears you have no intention of backing up your argument with data, but instead are trying to call on me to disprove it. Nice try, but no cigar.

 

[MissRibena]

So you want the person challenging your argument on the basis that you provide no evidence to go and FIND the evidence for you?

This is turning into one of those back-firing threads now and I'm starting to like it

Rebecca

 

[Gabriel]

So you want the person challenging your argument on the basis that you provide no evidence to go and FIND the evidence for you?

This is turning into one of those back-firing threads now and I'm starting to like it

Rebecca

No...just that if Vanilla wants to disprove the point I'm making he/she should provide evidence that is contrary to my argument and not his/hers.

This is 'Letting Off Steam' right? It's not 'Make a point and back it up with factual evidence' necessarily is it?

I mean are there facts out there for what I'm talking about? I don't think there is...

 

[Vanilla]

All good debates should have some factual basis, surely?

Otherwise I could just start a thread on how I hate looking at the cows on the moon, and ignore everyone else pointing out that there are no cows on the moon, since I feel like letting off steam about it.

Come on, Gabriel, this is the best debate I've had so far this month, don't let us down now with a cop-out?