As per my previous post, it maybe worth while in researching/setting up a Deed of Covenant.
niceoneted
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Are your parents getting all the free things they should be as one is over 70. Free TV license, credit on ESB/Gas, No land line fees to pay, free travel, medical card for the older one. My parents are both in their 70's and on old age pension, they live very well on it, can take several hols a year, enjoy their dinners and lunches out etc etc, They are careful with what they spend on and save every week. There out goings are not excessive.
You'll have to come to an agreement with your wife about how you manage the joint finances, don't put her in a position where she has an allowance from you. You need to keep your wife onside here, don't make an enemy out of her. Come to an agreement with her about what you should be giving both sets of parents, and stick to it.
Set up a standing order or similar which cannot be tampered with and go from there. Other expenses should be budgeted for, and your own savings should also go somewhere and be tamper proof or withdrawn only on something ye both agree on.
Obviously to stick with this the situation with the inlaws will have to be resolved. You and your wife need to present a joint front. Then decide on something for your MIL, stick to it. It should be no more than what your own folks are getting.
If they have a problem with that they should justify why they should get more. They sound like a bunch of spongers to me and only being encouraged by being shown your payslip - who showed her your payslip by the way? If it was your wife, I think another part of your agreement should be that your finances are private.
This is all normal stuff not rocket science - your money is yours and anything else is a special arrangement where the boundaries and rules must be well understood. When people think they have special rights to your money who's to say where it ends - they will just keep expecting more.
Set up a standing order or similar which cannot be tampered with and go from there. Other expenses should be budgeted for, and your own savings should also go somewhere and be tamper proof or withdrawn only on something ye both agree on.
Obviously to stick with this the situation with the inlaws will have to be resolved. You and your wife need to present a joint front. Then decide on something for your MIL, stick to it. It should be no more than what your own folks are getting.
If they have a problem with that they should justify why they should get more. They sound like a bunch of spongers to me and only being encouraged by being shown your payslip - who showed her your payslip by the way? If it was your wife, I think another part of your agreement should be that your finances are private.
This is all normal stuff not rocket science - your money is yours and anything else is a special arrangement where the boundaries and rules must be well understood. When people think they have special rights to your money who's to say where it ends - they will just keep expecting more.
Don't rush into doing anything, you should discuss what you are going to do with your wife first to see if she is in agreement. At the end of the day you are married and a partnership. Think about it from her point of view also. You must both sort it out together in as fair a manner as possible.
In relation to incomes could you please clarify the incomes of all the people, it would be interesting to show how much you and your wife have as versus your parents and versus her family to really see who is living on what.
That said I've never met anyone on AAM as generous as yourself, I could not be so selfless.
In relation to incomes could you please clarify the incomes of all the people, it would be interesting to show how much you and your wife have as versus your parents and versus her family to really see who is living on what.
That said I've never met anyone on AAM as generous as yourself, I could not be so selfless.
I don't think this is a money management question: it's a relationship one.
There is a clear need for Neo and Mrs. Neo to have a major discussion about their situation. Not a row, a discussion.
[As I was composing this post, I see Bronte posted something along the same lines -- well, not divergent lines.]
There is a clear need for Neo and Mrs. Neo to have a major discussion about their situation. Not a row, a discussion.
[As I was composing this post, I see Bronte posted something along the same lines -- well, not divergent lines.]
Phibbleberry
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Neo, a few things strike me here...
You are beating yourself up absolutely needlessly here, the bottom line is, we are chest deep in recession and you are being made to feel guilty that you are unable (not unwilling, your past behaviour shows this) to sustain their champagne lifestyle any longer. The fact that you have been until now, is to me, astonishing, but that is beside the point.
At 34 and 32 years of age and as parents, you are responsible for ensuring your own financial stability (as were both sets of parents, don't take a leaf out of their book - particularly your in-laws!)
You are on a good wage and your wife worked until recently, though you are not homeowners, but would obviously like to be, as per your comments in the first post.
I assume I would be correct in thinking that the reason you are not homeowners is as a direct result of not having the income to support a mortage because of your generosity?
The amount you supplement both sets of parents is akin to a (in the current climate) substantial mortgage. Unless you are expecting a windfall or massive pay increase in the coming years, this is not going to change.
What happens when you DO get a mortgage? They're going to have to do without then...
You are not getting any younger (I mean that in the nicest possible way!) - the longer you leave it, the shorter the term you will be elligible for, which in turn means higher monthly repayments.
My (humble) advise would be explain to them that you need to look at buying a home for their grandchild, particularly given the current value on the property market and they are just going to have to do without your financial assistance (crutch) until you have set yourself up. Tell them that when you are on your feet, you will give them what you can afford after you have evaluated your own expenses, that you won't see them on the streets (but for GODSSAKE, don't let them move in with you!)
In the meantime, if you feel you absolutely must help out, as others have suggested, set aside a certain amount each month (but not so as to restrict your own needs and that of your familys') and with it, purchase a gift card one month for €200 for their local supermarket and €50 the following month deposited directly into their ESB account. This way, they'll neither starve nor go cold, which is about all you're managing not to do in the current situation.
That way, you're contributing €125pm to each set of parent (which, is 250pm less to spend on your own needs) - theres no preference to either set (though your parents seem to be in more 'worthy' situation) yet you're dictating what YOUR wages go towards.
You have to remember, they are not old, this ain't gonna sort itself out in five years time - this has the potential (particularly in your MIL's case) of been drawn out for DECADES to come. And, you'll probably end up footing the bill for their nursing home expenses due to their friviolous money management. I am of course refering to your in-laws, rather than your own parents, who seem to have been unfortunate in their situation.
Surely the 20year old gets 200odd quid a mth? Is he contributing a similar percentage to the upkeep of the home?
I appreciate you don't want to upset your wife, but she has to realise your subsidising her parents lavish lifestyle is impacting on her marraige. Its hard to break the apron strings, but if she can see how its affecting you and see you're willing to contribute something, more, when/if the situation allows (though good luck with that when you've a mortgage!), she can't but show her parents you're doing the very best ye can without being on the breadline yourselves!
Sorry if I seem a little harsh, but you really need to take control of the situation or you're little boy will be in this exact situation thirty years down the line- you'll have spent all your money, his inheritence, on his grandparents!!!
You are beating yourself up absolutely needlessly here, the bottom line is, we are chest deep in recession and you are being made to feel guilty that you are unable (not unwilling, your past behaviour shows this) to sustain their champagne lifestyle any longer. The fact that you have been until now, is to me, astonishing, but that is beside the point.
At 34 and 32 years of age and as parents, you are responsible for ensuring your own financial stability (as were both sets of parents, don't take a leaf out of their book - particularly your in-laws!)
You are on a good wage and your wife worked until recently, though you are not homeowners, but would obviously like to be, as per your comments in the first post.
I assume I would be correct in thinking that the reason you are not homeowners is as a direct result of not having the income to support a mortage because of your generosity?
The amount you supplement both sets of parents is akin to a (in the current climate) substantial mortgage. Unless you are expecting a windfall or massive pay increase in the coming years, this is not going to change.
What happens when you DO get a mortgage? They're going to have to do without then...
You are not getting any younger (I mean that in the nicest possible way!) - the longer you leave it, the shorter the term you will be elligible for, which in turn means higher monthly repayments.
My (humble) advise would be explain to them that you need to look at buying a home for their grandchild, particularly given the current value on the property market and they are just going to have to do without your financial assistance (crutch) until you have set yourself up. Tell them that when you are on your feet, you will give them what you can afford after you have evaluated your own expenses, that you won't see them on the streets (but for GODSSAKE, don't let them move in with you!)
In the meantime, if you feel you absolutely must help out, as others have suggested, set aside a certain amount each month (but not so as to restrict your own needs and that of your familys') and with it, purchase a gift card one month for €200 for their local supermarket and €50 the following month deposited directly into their ESB account. This way, they'll neither starve nor go cold, which is about all you're managing not to do in the current situation.
That way, you're contributing €125pm to each set of parent (which, is 250pm less to spend on your own needs) - theres no preference to either set (though your parents seem to be in more 'worthy' situation) yet you're dictating what YOUR wages go towards.
You have to remember, they are not old, this ain't gonna sort itself out in five years time - this has the potential (particularly in your MIL's case) of been drawn out for DECADES to come. And, you'll probably end up footing the bill for their nursing home expenses due to their friviolous money management. I am of course refering to your in-laws, rather than your own parents, who seem to have been unfortunate in their situation.
Surely the 20year old gets 200odd quid a mth? Is he contributing a similar percentage to the upkeep of the home?
I appreciate you don't want to upset your wife, but she has to realise your subsidising her parents lavish lifestyle is impacting on her marraige. Its hard to break the apron strings, but if she can see how its affecting you and see you're willing to contribute something, more, when/if the situation allows (though good luck with that when you've a mortgage!), she can't but show her parents you're doing the very best ye can without being on the breadline yourselves!
Sorry if I seem a little harsh, but you really need to take control of the situation or you're little boy will be in this exact situation thirty years down the line- you'll have spent all your money, his inheritence, on his grandparents!!!
truthseeker
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This is a good idea, but from a relationship point of view you need to be totally open with your wife about how you are managing this - and why.
While I commend your generous nature I would question what exactly your parents are doing that requires an extra 600 a month each. Surely with all the benefits in terms of reduced bills etc available these days, plus pension that is enough for them to live comfortably on? While taking 600 a month from you and seeing that you are not a homeowner did they not think that you need to be securing your own future?
There are jobs, but they are minimum wage jobs. I dont think you can be made responsible for your MILs frivolous lifestyle - and as for the 20 year old, thats just encouraging a lazy waster into a lazy waster lifestyle. Whats he gonna end up doing? He needs to stand on his own two feet and stop expecting someone else to pay for his ride through life.
Thats exactly what she should be doing. And she should also be cutting back on her lifestyle if she cant afford it.
I cant believe you were allowing them steak to begin with!!!
If you wish to give your parents and in laws money each month do so. But dont forget that you yourself have a child and a future to secure and money is not there to be used to fund other peoples lifestyles. Itd be different if you were paying for medicine or something, but its just about a nice lifestyle!!!
take action instead of giving out - (your wife did just that). Simple:
your wife isn't working. So you stop putting money into any account she has access to. Start putting a seperate savings account together without her. Run your house money like a business and give her an allowance. She will soon decide how much of HER money she will freely give away.
You might be ignored for a while - but it's not harm to get some respect and balance back.
your wife isn't working. So you stop putting money into any account she has access to. Start putting a seperate savings account together without her. Run your house money like a business and give her an allowance. She will soon decide how much of HER money she will freely give away.
You might be ignored for a while - but it's not harm to get some respect and balance back.
WaterSprite
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I'd agree with the posters who suggest that you need to come to an agreement with your wife. I do not believe that holding the purse strings and giving your wife an allowance is the way to go.
I see above that the extra money you allocated yourselves was "no questions asked" - she could do whatever she wanted with that extra money, as you agreed, so giving out about it now is going to be counter-productive. I presume that this discretionary allowance (for both of you) is now back in the family pot, which is logical and fair.
The only thing that has changed is that money is now tighter because you want to save and you have to reel back in that extra money per month that was formerly discretionary.
As other posters have said, sit down with your wife and work out a fair schedule of payments to the parents (if you want to continue funding either or both sets) & put money aside for family savings that can't be touched (perhaps requiring both signatures?) Start from the top, taking into account your own financial obligations and savings requirements, then see what's left and work from there.
Make sure that all parents/siblings are getting all the required state & pension allowances & entitlements & I also recommend looking into a Deed of Covenant, which could save you tax.
Once & if you decide to donate money to either set of parents, I don't think you should make any comment about how they spend it.
I can't quite get over this thread to be quite honest. OP, you're a very very decent man to be giving so much money to your parents and in-laws. Don't even think about beating yourself up over your changed attitude to money or anything like that. You work hard for your money and you're extremely generous with it.
Unfortunately there are people out there who mistake generosity for being a mug. Your MIL and BIL sound like complete and utter scroungers and there's no reason whatsoever for you to support them. They're both well able to work. You have your own family to support and in my view I don't see why they should be given anything. Good luck working this out with your wife.
Unfortunately there are people out there who mistake generosity for being a mug. Your MIL and BIL sound like complete and utter scroungers and there's no reason whatsoever for you to support them. They're both well able to work. You have your own family to support and in my view I don't see why they should be given anything. Good luck working this out with your wife.
As previously said I would sit down with your wife on this issue. Just looking at the posts since and your response that you willopen another account with you only as signatory I do not agree with this. You and your wife have operated a system where you both have access to a joint account. You are the only income earner but they are family monies and you both have to decide how they are used.
If you stop a joint account without speaking to your wife about this issue you are going to bring trouble on yourself.
You have decided as a married couple that you will work, your wife will stay at home and mind the children. That is the family decision - it does not mean that you alone should control the purse strings.
I would recommend that you to talk to your wife and not take unilateral action.
If you stop a joint account without speaking to your wife about this issue you are going to bring trouble on yourself.
You have decided as a married couple that you will work, your wife will stay at home and mind the children. That is the family decision - it does not mean that you alone should control the purse strings.
I would recommend that you to talk to your wife and not take unilateral action.
if you divorce you'll be broke anyway,believe me!! Its cheaper to stay together. Even if she's not working,she's still contributing by staying at home and looking after your child. seems like the mother is bullying her or making her feel guilty about not contributing. i dont actually know if this story is true,it doesnt make sense....if it is communicating with your wife is the only way forward whatever the outcome.
Do not have a secret account from your wife as this will come back to haunt you. My advice
1) Speak to your wife immediately and both you and wife need to stop support to both sides of the family. Your parents will survive no problem on the state pension (my parents are similar age and survive no problem...are probably even saving... and i would not class their life as lower class). It will be a problem for your MIL but at 50 she and the BIL should have no problem getting work even if it is minimum wage
2) Start a regular saver account with the 1200 per month that you currently give parents into it and use it to save for a deposit on a house....Set it up so that both signatures have to be on it to make withdrawal
3) Revise the setting on your current saving account for both signatures before money can be withdrawn
4) Get every account up on-line and monitor daily for the next few months
I think it is mad that you and your wife are supporting the in-laws on both sides... I would do everything for my parents and in-laws but I would not have them walking all over me.
BTW... does your MIL and BIL get social welfare?
1) Speak to your wife immediately and both you and wife need to stop support to both sides of the family. Your parents will survive no problem on the state pension (my parents are similar age and survive no problem...are probably even saving... and i would not class their life as lower class). It will be a problem for your MIL but at 50 she and the BIL should have no problem getting work even if it is minimum wage
2) Start a regular saver account with the 1200 per month that you currently give parents into it and use it to save for a deposit on a house....Set it up so that both signatures have to be on it to make withdrawal
3) Revise the setting on your current saving account for both signatures before money can be withdrawn
4) Get every account up on-line and monitor daily for the next few months
I think it is mad that you and your wife are supporting the in-laws on both sides... I would do everything for my parents and in-laws but I would not have them walking all over me.
BTW... does your MIL and BIL get social welfare?
1 - no more money whatsoever to your bro in law. he is a lazy waster,not a panny more
2 - not more to you MIL either, she obviously needs to do some re-adjusting
your own parents are a different matter as they dont waste the money but lets be honest here is 410 euro a week (two pensions) not enough for two old people to live on that have no mortgage and most services are free.
come on now, my mother is 62 yrs old and has thousdands put away,plus she still works as a physic nurse. stop giving away your life to everyone.
2 - not more to you MIL either, she obviously needs to do some re-adjusting
your own parents are a different matter as they dont waste the money but lets be honest here is 410 euro a week (two pensions) not enough for two old people to live on that have no mortgage and most services are free.
come on now, my mother is 62 yrs old and has thousdands put away,plus she still works as a physic nurse. stop giving away your life to everyone.
) and explain to both sets of parents and the waster brother that everythings BoscoTalking
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you seem not to mention your hopes and dreams for your 4 children? do you expect them or want them to do the same as you do for you in the future? if the worst happens and they cannot access third level for financial reasons will mil pull together that way.
You should have them and your wife at the center of your worries.
Your wife does not "fear" you more than her own mother, so next time you meet MIL i would say it out straight that you will not be giving her any more money to squander when you have college fees etc etc to save for. I would for your wifes sake tell her it was your decision as financial dictator. The payslip? sorry but i have to say i would be freaking but then i do put mine in a file for my eyes only so if you don't do this then start it now!!
Ironically my parents are the exact opposite - i cannot mention saving to pay a bill or buy something but they are hiding a few bob in my bag or posting me a card with €€ to spend on my son and not worry about it being practical. its the way i thought money should flow? its probably just as bad.
You should have them and your wife at the center of your worries.
Your wife does not "fear" you more than her own mother, so next time you meet MIL i would say it out straight that you will not be giving her any more money to squander when you have college fees etc etc to save for. I would for your wifes sake tell her it was your decision as financial dictator. The payslip? sorry but i have to say i would be freaking but then i do put mine in a file for my eyes only so if you don't do this then start it now!!
Ironically my parents are the exact opposite - i cannot mention saving to pay a bill or buy something but they are hiding a few bob in my bag or posting me a card with €€ to spend on my son and not worry about it being practical. its the way i thought money should flow? its probably just as bad.
Sounds like the MIL has some money problems and is slowly bringing you down with her. People like her will just get worse and worse and she will find other ways of extracting money from your wife unless the problem is addressed. You'll end up bankrupt if you dont cut her off or get her help.
As for the 20year old. Why isnt he signing on? Why isnt he applying to do a FAS course? Why isnt he trying to get a job? Long term, cutting off his support would be the best thing for him as it will force him to confront reality. If he continues the way he is, within a few years he'll be unemployable.
As for the 20year old. Why isnt he signing on? Why isnt he applying to do a FAS course? Why isnt he trying to get a job? Long term, cutting off his support would be the best thing for him as it will force him to confront reality. If he continues the way he is, within a few years he'll be unemployable.
BoscoTalking
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if it is a state pension then most services may not be free for them at all.
I find this thread so hard to believe. Not that I don't believe the poster.... I just didn't realise that this type of thing went on. I understand how he feels obliged to help out his own parents .... but his MIL is hardly that old. Why can't she get some kind of work - even part time? Both my parents work, and they are 58 .... with no intention of retiring any time soon!
What the Poster earns should be of no concern to his MIL.
It's very sad that he is thinking about divorce. Is it that he is so disillusioned with his wife that he no longer loves her?
It's a tough situation
What the Poster earns should be of no concern to his MIL.
It's very sad that he is thinking about divorce. Is it that he is so disillusioned with his wife that he no longer loves her?
It's a tough situation