Why is Bitcoin "digital gold" crashing right now?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Disingenuous much? I'll ask you once more. Please post a link to the information you refer to in post #230.

See Properties
Fiat as a medium of exchange is not meant to be a long term store of value. Its guardians have openly declared their intention to try and devalue it by 2% p.a. But monetary assets earning interest have proved not too bad as a store of value in the past.

 

[tecate]

See Properties
Fiat as a medium of exchange is not meant to be a long term store of value. Its guardians have openly declared their intention to try and devalue it by 2% p.a. But monetary assets earning interest have proved not too bad as a store of value in the past.

As was explained to you (and as you well knew from the outset), those are the characteristics of a means of exchange and NOT a store of value.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

As was explained to you (and as you well knew from the outset), those are the characteristics of a means of exchange and NOT a store of value.

You have not once answered as regards consideration of Bitcoin vs. FIAT and these nonsensical examples you try and suggest Bitcoin is equal to - and compared them on the basis of the characteristics of a store of value. That is the following;

- Durability
- Fungability
- Portability
- Verifiability
- Divisibility
- Scarcity
- Established History
- Censorship Resistance.

Are my posts not showing up properly on your computer? I'll try again. What have Fungability, Portability and Divisibility got to do with store of value? Or let me ask a supplementary. The Wiki list contains "Cognizability: its value must be easily identified" Surely if you think Fungability, Portability and Divisibility are important tests of store of value, you would accept that Cognizability is more important than these, after all it actually references the word "value". Why did you drop Cognizability from your universal tests?

 

[WolfeTone]

Microsoft and Bitcoin

Why does one of the largest technology companies in the world have a support page to use Bitcoin to add money to your Microsoft account?
Surely the tech heads at Microsoft can see past the BOHA that is bitcoin?
Or perhaps it is others who cannot wrap their heads around the concept that is bitcoin?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

OMG Theo is back

 

[tecate]

Are my posts not showing up properly on your computer? I'll try again. What have Fungability, Portability and Divisibility got to do with store of value? Or let me ask a supplementary. The Wiki list contains "Cognizability: its value must be easily identified" Surely if you think Fungability, Portability and Divisibility are important tests of store of value, you would accept that Cognizability is more important than these, after all it actually references the word "value". Why did you drop Cognizability from your universal tests?

Once again, you incorrectly quoted the characteristics of a medium of exchange/currency and not those of a store of value.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

tecate - Gold might be worth zero. I don't really mind what it's worth as I am not a fan of it as a store of value, or a medium of exchange, or to adorn myself with.

Now please show us your calculations to show how Bitcoin is worth $10k

Is the value of gold part of your equation which ends in =$10,000 ?

Or Brendan's view of the value of gold part of that equation?

Brendan

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Once again, you incorrectly quoted the characteristics for a medium of exchange/currency and not those for a store of value.

Okay, you won't answer the question. Ever think of a career in politics?
I see Wolfie has been so excited that Microsoft have reinstated the facility to buy games with btc (had been suspended due to volatility) that he has decided that he has to break his vow of silence.
I don't know under which of your universal acceptance tests as a store of value, being able to buy games would score. Can you help?
As an aside, anybody that goes to the bother of paying for her Microsoft games with bitcoin is an unreconstructed self indulgent cultist (USIC) in my book.

 

[tecate]

Gold might be worth zero. I don't really mind what it's worth as I am not a fan of it as a store of value, or a medium of exchange, or to adorn myself with.

Not so fast, Brendan. If you're making such a big fat claim then you'll have to defend it. The big fat claim is that you state that if there's no easy calculation to determine a fair price for Bitcoin then its worth $0. Yet you suggest that if there's no easy calculation to determine a fair price for gold, then it doesn't get the same treatment...you say it 'might be worth zero'...whereas with Bitcoin, you leave everyone in no doubt. How's that for double standards Brendan. Which is it? Gold 'might be worth zero' or it is worth zero? Should those that stake the $9 trillion dollar gold industry be worried? If this is a breakthrough in understanding, then this could be huge. There could be some media interviews coming your way on the subject!


Just so that we're clear, these are the double standards i'm talking about:

Double Standards
So far you've presented with three double standards in this discussion:

1. Bitcoin has been considered in terms of seven universally accepted characteristics of what makes for a good store of value but you won't assess any of the nonsensical things that you liken Bitcoin to on the basis of those same fundamentals.
2. The core of your argument is that Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value* and on that basis alone you say that it is worth zero. However, you don't apply the same standard to intrinsically valueless FIAT money (i.e. €uro, USD, GBP, etc.).
3. In the absence of a neat formula to determine the fair price of Bitcoin, you say that it has zero value. Yet when I ask you to apply the same standard to gold, you tell me that's irrational.
*Bitcoin does actually have intrinsic value as it's an energy standard.

 

[WolfeTone]

tecate has mentioned a figure of $9trn for the gold market.
I dont know how gold is valued at $1500 per ounce today, and maybe $1600 tomorrow other than it is what the market prices it at.

I cant envisage gold being wholly replaced by bitcoin, but perhaps that is just my lack of foresight. I can envisage bitcoin taking a share of that market. How much I dont know, but 50% of that $9trn doesnt seem implausible to me.
So with 21m bitcoin taking a 50% share of the $9trn gold market, my guess is that bitcoin could range from $114,000 - $214,000 a coin.
That said, it is a long way down the road, but at todays prices, certainly worth considering to buy some more.

 

[WolfeTone]

I see Wolfie has been so excited that Microsoft have reinstated the facility to buy games with btc (had been suspended due to volatility) that he has decided that he has to break his vow of silence.

Not really. I simply acted a bit rashly a few months back. A time-out from cyber space was called for.

Why would one of the largest technology companies in the world have a support page for bitcoin usage?

 

[Firefly]

Not really. I simply acted a bit rashly a few months back. A time-out from cyber space was called for.

It's like you never left

 

[tecate]

Why would one of the largest technology companies in the world have a support page for bitcoin usage?

Could it be that they can actually look at things objectively and they see what's coming down the tracks? So much so, that they've taken to building on top of the Bitcoin blockchain network themselves. Could it be that they see Bitcoin layer 2 solution Lightning Network making steady progress and think not only will it solve the Bitcoin transaction time/cost issue but that it could have other implications for the $93 billion gaming industry?

 

[elacsaplau]

tecate has mentioned a figure of $9trn...…..

Hey Wolfie,

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Playboy...…...............of the Western World, that is. There's a part in it when the Playboy's dad appears yet again, which gives rise to the famous line of: "are you coming to be killed a third time, or what ails you?"

Your welcome return kinda reminds me of this! Stick around a while!

 

[Brendan Burgess]

it 'might be worth zero'...

Just to be clear as I have worded it badly.

Gold might be worth zero for all I care. It might be worth zero. It might be worth $1,000 an ounce. If I ever choose to buy it or short it, I will study it. But I doubt I will.

Any time you are ready, you might share with us, your calculations that Bitcoin is worth $10,000?

As I said, this is serious. I have shorted it before and would like to do so again. But if there is any evidence that it has a fundamental value, I would like to see it.

Brendan

 

[WolfeTone]

Could it be that they can actually look at things objectively and they see what's coming down the tracks?

Perhaps so tecate , i can never be too sure about these things. Alot of the technical talk surrounding bitcoin is often way over my head. But I garner assurance from understanding the concept of bitcoin and, as time proceeds, the whole crypto/blockchain/bitcoin arena is settling as a normal facet of internet and digital technology.

 

[WolfeTone]

It's like you never left

Thanks Firefly, I almost detect the veiled sarcasm in your
The Big Short (unjustly banned), Folsom (created to get around the unjust banning of The Big Short, but then unjustly banned).
And now Wolfe Tone, im sure BB can confirm timelines of said bannings and username creations.

After that, you can speculate to your little speculative hearts content

But lets not digress. You are an IT man are you not?
Can you explain why one of the largest technology companies in the world have a support page for payments with Bitcoin?

 

[Firefly]

Hi tecate,

You are obviously very knowledgeable in the area of Bitcoin so I also would be very interested in knowing how you arrive at this valuation.

 

[Firefly]

Thanks Firefly, I almost detect the veiled sarcasm in your
The Big Short (unjustly banned), Folsom (created to get around the unjust banning of The Big Short, but then unjustly banned).

Speaking of Folsom, did you know that Folsom is a hotel that features in the book Bitcoin Billionaires? How's that for coincidence ???

 

[WolfeTone]

Speaking of Folsom, did you know that Folsom is a hotel that features in the book Bitcoin Billionaires? How's that for coincidence ???

No I did not know that. Its also a city in California where I have some distant relations living. I hope to visit someday.

Any thoughts on why the one of the largest technology companies in the world has a support page for payments with bitcoin?