Key Post Why Bitcoin has value

Status
Not open for further replies.

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,376
You can't defend that so you try this 'illuminati' nonsense.
Stoking fear of the government monitoring my transactions is right up there with the illuminati nonsense.

You still haven't shown me where I can buy that bypass device with Bitcoin by the way. I tried the moon alternative, but it wouldn't work on my phone or tablet.
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
566
Stoking fear of the government monitoring my transactions is right up there with the illuminati nonsense.
Really, Leo? We have confirmation from Hong Kong that they're doing exactly that. Are the illuminati involved there then? I'm asking you as it's your thing.

You still haven't shown me where I can buy that bypass device with Bitcoin by the way. I tried the moon alternative, but it wouldn't work on my phone or tablet.
You told me that you had no intention of paying with Bitcoin so why would you have tried that browser extension.
If you want to revert to that childish nonsense - here's a dose of your own medicine. Where's evidence of this 'industry review' of this paper that you tried to big up? Still waiting for that.
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,376
Really, Leo? We have confirmation from Hong Kong that they're doing exactly that. Are the illuminati involved there then? I'm asking you as it's your thing.
Have we? I haven't seen evidence. Regardless, the Chinese monitoring their citizens is no surprise to anyone. Are you suggesting the Irish government will do likewise any time soon? That every national government will start investing billions in doing likewise?

You told me that you had no intention of paying with Bitcoin so why would you have tried that browser extension.
Curiosity, I wanted to see what the experience was like using Bitcoin to pay.

If you want to revert to that childish nonsense - here's a dose of your own medicine. Where's evidence of this 'industry review' of this paper that you tried to big up? Still waiting for that.
Asking you to name the shop you said you found is hardly childish? But hey, you answer that, I'll answer your question.
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
566
Have we? I haven't seen evidence. Regardless, the Chinese monitoring their citizens is no surprise to anyone. Are you suggesting the Irish government will do likewise any time soon? That every national government will start investing billions in doing likewise?
Who said anything about investing billions - this type of thing can happen at various levels. So you haven't seen any evidence yet it's of no surprise YET you try and pass it off as an illuminati styled conspiracy theory. I'll let it rest at that.

Curiosity, I wanted to see what the experience was like using Bitcoin to pay.
You told me different. You stated categorically that you wouldn't be paying with Bitcoin after I suggested the means through which you could buy 353 million products (including the item you challenged me to source) seamlessly with the decentralised digital currency.

Asking you to name the shop you said you found is hardly childish? But hey, you answer that, I'll answer your question.
I disagree. I provided you with the mechanism through which you can pay using Bitcoin on the Amazon platform. You've turned your nose up at it. That's where it ends.

You won't provide proof of this 'industry review' because there isn't one. It would have been more mature to say - that piece of info was inaccurate and move on. But as you wish.
 

Firefly

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,067
I provided you with the mechanism through which you can pay using Bitcoin on the Amazon platform.
This mechanism converts Bitcoin to FIAT on your platform. It is a browser extension running on your device / computer.

Amazon does not accept Bitcoin for payment and performs no conversion. You cannot pay for anything using Bitcoin on the Amazon platform and it is misleading to say you can.

Honestly tecate, I suspect you may be trolling. In fact it looks like the Shortie Syndrome has made it's way to the southern hemisphere......
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
566
This mechanism converts Bitcoin to FIAT on your platform. It is a browser extension running on your device / computer.
You still struggling with this Firefly? Ok, lets go.
It's here. Watch it. Are you logged in to your amazon account when paying with Bitcoin for goods on Amazon? Yes! As has been outlined at length, it's a third party browser extension. It does the conversion as you check out on the Amazon platform.

The two of you have gone to great lengths to try and suggest that this is an unworkable option when it is an innovative workaround which opens up Amazon's entire product offering for purchase to anyone who holds Bitcoin. It's misleading to do so.

Amazon does not accept Bitcoin for payment and performs no conversion.
It has never been claimed that it does so directly. What you can see from the demo purchase video is that the third party conversion via the browser extension facilitates the purchase of anything on the platform seamlessly.
Just so there's no confusion, Moon Technologies - the company behind the browser extension - will be rolling this out to other platforms and the broader e-commerce landscape in 2020.

Honestly tecate, I suspect you may be trolling.
If you're talking about trolling - look in the mirror Firefly.

In fact it looks like the Shortie Syndrome has made it's way to the southern hemisphere......
I have no idea what that means (and if it's not on point with the topic, I'm certainly not looking for an explanation).
 
Last edited:

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,376
Who said anything about investing billions - this type of thing can happen at various levels.
You brought up the Chinese authorities, monitoring of citizens to the level they carry out costs many billions per annum. The Chinese are estimated to spend well into the hundreds of billions on it. To suggest every state is doing likewise is nonsense. In the context of this thread, to think bitcoin offers much in the way of protection against that level of state monitoring is also nonsense.

You told me different. You stated categorically that you wouldn't be paying with Bitcoin after I suggested the means through which you could buy 353 million products (including the item you challenged me to source) seamlessly with the decentralised digital currency.
I don't remember saying that, can you point me to that post?

I disagree. I provided you with the mechanism through which you can pay using Bitcoin on the Amazon platform. You've turned your nose up at it. That's where it ends.
Clearly it didn't end there, I actually went and tried it, but failed. Not quite so seamless as you were claiming.

You also claimed I could buy anything I wanted on Amazon with Bitcoin, but it only works on Amazon.com. Many of the 355 million goods you claim I can buy either don't ship to Ireland, or do so with shipping and customs charges that make them significantly more expensive than purchasing through Amazon or other sources based in Europe.

You still can't send me a link to just one of the multiple European shops you found that will accept bitcoin for that device? No????
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,376
It's here. Watch it. Are you logged in to your amazon account when paying with Bitcoin for goods on Amazon?
Moon's own material clearly acknowledges Firefly's point. You're using a browser plug-in that is directly manipulating the payment page Amazon issue to overlay their version of the payment frame in place of Amazon's. Use a tool like Wireshark to look at the page Amazon issue and it will contain their standard payment frame, you'll then see the Moon plug-in take the details from that and send it to their servers which will return their payment overlay.
 

Firefly

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,067
The two of you have gone to great lengths to try and suggest that this is an unworkable option when it is an innovative workaround which opens up Amazon's entire product offering for purchase to anyone who holds Bitcoin.
Can you back this up please, specifically where I have suggested this is "an unworkable option"?
 
Last edited:

Firefly

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,067
You still struggling with this Firefly? Ok, lets go.
It's here. Watch it. Are you logged in to your amazon account when paying with Bitcoin for goods on Amazon? Yes! As has been outlined at length, it's a third party browser extension. It does the conversion as you check out on the Amazon platform.
Consider this....there is a problem with the plug-in, you cannot fix it yourself and you require support. Do you contact Amazon (afterall isn't there a problem with its platform)?
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
566
You brought up the Chinese authorities, monitoring of citizens to the level they carry out costs many billions per annum. The Chinese are estimated to spend well into the hundreds of billions on it. To suggest every state is doing likewise is nonsense. In the context of this thread, to think bitcoin offers much in the way of protection against that level of state monitoring is also nonsense.
Yes, I brought up the Hong Kong protestors and the concern they have in using Visa/Mastercards (and cards linked to visa/mastercard). That was the context in which I brought that up. That and other instances which proves this notion that visa/mastercard are untouchable/beyond reproach/incapable of doing any wrong with customer data is nonsense. That's the point that you made and your point falls down entirely.

I also said that this type of thing can be carried out at various levels. WHERE did I say that every state is spending hundreds of billions? I've said 'various levels'! Other than that, I said and I'm stating that Bitcoin can and will play a role in freeing people from financial surveillance. If you're a person of interest to the extent of an Edward Snowden, then it will only be useful if an Edward Snowden level online/networked device security regimen is followed. Data can be abused at a number of levels.

You're trying your hardest to contrive to make that seem complex when its not.

I don't remember saying that, can you point me to that post?
Post No. 135.

Clearly it didn't end there, I actually went and tried it, but failed. Not quite so seamless as you were claiming.
And yet others can. Strange how you won't expand beyond that. What issue did you encounter specifically?

You also claimed I could buy anything I wanted on Amazon with Bitcoin, but it only works on Amazon.com. Many of the 355 million goods you claim I can buy either don't ship to Ireland, or do so with shipping and customs charges that make them significantly more expensive than purchasing through Amazon or other sources based in Europe.
You challenged me to source an Aeotec Bypass with payment via Bitcoin. That can be bought on the Amazon platform with Bitcoin (courtesy of 1x browser extension). Are there 353 million products available for purchase on Amazon with Bitcoin in that way? YES. Bitcoin isn't an irish phenomenon - it's a global phenomenon.
From the very outset, I told you that this facilitation via Moon Technologies was brand spanking new. They have enabled that facilitation via amazon.com . Last week they proceeded to enable amazon.ca. The European variants will follow in the coming weeks. Other platforms such as target, walmart, aliexpress will follow.
More significantly still - this facilitation does not have to be confined to specific ecommerce platforms. It's done at a payment gateway/processor level - meaning that independent ecommerce sites will follow and they won't have to be enabled one by one.
And by the way, you're Aeotec Bypass is available for delivery to Ireland via Amazon.com.

Moon's own material clearly acknowledges Firefly's point. You're using a browser plug-in that is directly manipulating the payment page Amazon issue to overlay their version of the payment frame in place of Amazon's. Use a tool like Wireshark to look at the page Amazon issue and it will contain their standard payment frame, you'll then see the Moon plug-in take the details from that and send it to their servers which will return their payment overlay.
Firefly's point? He's been repeating nonsense over and over but I see no point! Within the first couple of posts of the discussion on this specific item, I confirmed that this was a browser plugin - that this overlays on the Amazon platform whilst you're logged in to your amazon account - whilst you proceed to checkout and the payments page on your amazon account.
There is no mystery here. If you still see mystery here, then I would strongly suggest you both apply for positions on Trumps Ukraine Impeachment Defense Team. :rolleyes:

You still can't send me a link to just one of the multiple European shops you found that will accept bitcoin for that device? No????
Pathetic. I provided you with a completely valid option to buy the item in question via Amazon using Bitcoin (as per the above and countless other posts). Why would I be motivated to spend time looking for other options when you cast aside a perfectly good option?

On the 'demands' note - still waiting for the evidence of this 'industry reviewed' research. For the umpteenth time, where is it? pathetic.

Can you back this up please, specifically where I have suggested this is "an unworkable option"?
Backed up in spades by the absolute nonsense you've pursued over numerous posts trying to make a mountain out of a molehill - bigging up something out of nothing in trying to denigrate an incredibly innovative solution which a former Lockheed Martin engineer has come up with in enabling Bitcoin holders to use their digital currency in buying products on the amazon platform.
Consider this....there is a problem with the plug-in, you cannot fix it yourself and you require support. Do you contact Amazon (afterall isn't there a problem with its platform)?
This has been done to death. It's fully explained. If there is an issue with a third party plugin which facilitates purchase of an item on the amazon platform, you would contact the third party responsible for that plugin. Ask Leo - he knows well. He just told us that he had such an issue so we know he would have contacted them on that. :D
 
Last edited:

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,376
Post No. 135.
Nope, I didn't say it there. Want to try again?

And yet others can. Strange how you won't expand beyond that. What issue did you encounter specifically?
I told you the issue quite specifically. You cannot use Moon on a mobile device, phone or tablet. If you want to use it, you must use a desktop computer where you are comfortable giving them the ability to snoop on all your encrypted traffic.

The European variants will follow in the coming weeks.
So you still can't give me one example of the multiple you said you found selling that device in Europe where I can pay with Bitcoin?
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,376
Ask Leo - he knows well. He just told us that he had such an issue so we know he would have contacted them on that. :D
The issues I had was explained at the time and again above, it's not something I'd expect them to do anything about. If I had managed to make a purchase and experienced issues subsequently, I'd accept that as they are completely unregulated, all I could do is hope they might refund me. I would have no legal means of enforcing a resolution.
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
566
Nope, I didn't say it there. Want to try again?
Disagree completely. The post is there - people can read it and make up their own minds.

I told you the issue quite specifically. You cannot use Moon on a mobile device, phone or tablet.
It's so clear that you are stretching to try and denigrate a new and innovative approach which enables Bitcoin payment in ecommerce.
This is not an 'issue'! The very nature of browser extensions means that they are available on desktop! Let's get real. Your claim was that you could buy nothing with Bitcoin - you've fallen flat on your face with that claim. All you can muster now is this disingenuous nonsense.
Oh, and by the way, the firefox mobile browser now supports browser extensions on android. It's also possible with google chrome albeit that official support has yet not been provided although it is expected. But hey - cling on to this by all means :cool:

where you are comfortable giving them the ability to snoop on all your encrypted traffic.
Hilarious. Cast some aspersions why don't you? In terms of security, browser extensions are no different than mobile apps. Are you going to tell all readers to uninstall their banking apps? The browser extension in question has been approved by Google - they won't list it if it doesn't conform to certain standards. They pay security professionals for any evidence of data abuse when it comes to browser extensions. But don't let those details disrupt your narrative.

So you still can't give me one example of the multiple you said you found selling that device in Europe where I can pay with Bitcoin?
The answer will remain the same, Leo. You dismissed a perfectly decent option to buy your Aeotec Bypass device using Bitcoin. There is NO rationale to your obsession. Furthermore, why would I lift a finger when you won't accept that I presented you with a perfectly legitimate means of buying that device on Amazon via that particular browser extension? Acknowledge that and I'll indulge your demand - but up until that point, you can go fish.

Still waiting for confirmation of this 'industry reviewed' research. We all know that this was lies as part of a desperate attempt to support your argument.
The issues I had was explained at the time and again above, it's not something I'd expect them to do anything about.
It was disingenuous to present this as an 'issue'. Its as clear as night and day that this is a browser extension and browser extensions are run on desktop. The third party browser extension providers state clearly that this is what is supported. Notwithstanding that, there has already been some support for browser extensions on mobile - and it seems likely that official support will follow on Google Chrome also.
If you work in IT security, its not going to be in any way believable to readers that you don't have a desktop or laptop.

I'd accept that as they are completely unregulated, all I could do is hope they might refund me. I would have no legal means of enforcing a resolution.
The average order on Amazon is $47. You think that Moon Technologies are going to put their entire business model at risk to steal your $47? You may think that - I certainly don't!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top