What will happen when/if the PService deal is rejected?

Galwaygirl said:
are you calling me a liar?? It is perfectly possible if you are in an organisation with a lot of staff working on reduced hours or where official headcount has been frozen for years despite workload increasing. I am currently in the process of trying to get a CID but won't know until later in the summer if it is successful.
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Headcount, reduced hours etc. are irrelevant. Based on the information you have provided, you are already on CID by default.

A relative of mine works in a part of the PS where rolling contracts are the norm. Says her boss takes advantage of the fact that a lot of employees are ignorant of the law - would deliberately not tell them when they had acquired permanency. When she herself was offered CID, she got a long speach from the boss about how lucky she was, and how she should be thankful to him for doing this favour etc. etc. etc. and how she's lucky that she has a job etc.etc. even though she knew that he was legally required to do so as she'd exceeded the 4 year limit. He also doesnt formally present the CID contracts to some staff at all as he likes the idea that they think they are only temporary staff as this motivates them to work harder to acquire "permanency" that they already have. I'm told that this practice is common among management in this particular part of the PS - its likely that you work in this area.
 
Caveat said:
To address the original question, what is the status now - rejection from all unions so far except SIPTU?

It makes for an odd outcome. The biggest union (by far?) accepting the deal and ICTU, the uber-union accepting it, but nobody else.

What say/influence do ICTU have then - none?
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To address the original question, you may find each union doing a solo run.
Liam Doran has already said they will be putting forward alternative proposals at their conference in May. Maybe they will have ideas to save money by reforms but just don't want to 'dance to the government's tune' as he put it. If they can save money they will prob try and stop further pay cuts for their members and their members alone.
Other unions like Unite are looking for a reversal of the pay cuts, which is not going to happen.
 
Galwaygirl
Posts: 70

You have no idea how these contract renewals work!! Where I work it is on a LIFO basis or an everyone or nobody basis. There are no permanent jobs unless a permanent staff member leaves (and none now with teh embargo) and the person hanging around on contracts for longest gets that automatically. Renewals are not based on performance and are purely budget based.
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All or none basis!

LIFOs!


All of this is so wrong, and is huge part of the problem in the PS.

It sounds like a system that is Jurassic.
 
Its great to see that you agree.

The unions are responsible for LIFOs and for all or none basis.

I know this for a fact as when I was in the PS god help anyone who tried to step outside the box or to argue that LIFOS are utterly ridiculous.

If you don't agree with either of those or any action someone takes,it is beyond comprehension to not partake.

Maybe the people who are in the PS ,should be prepared to more flexible and not insist on LIFOS and all for one basis etc.
 
Its not just the LIFOs and the all or none that cause problems ,its being unable to move dept, being only allowed to do exactly what your job is ,no diversions like watering a plant ,god forbid.And by the way there are people who want to be flexible who would welcome change and reform.

There are a lot of people in the PS who feel totally tied,by militant unions and their reps.
I think these people should gather strength and not be bullied into submission by those with vested interests.
Maybe the time has come to revolt!

If there was more flexibility, more people open to change, more recognition of productivity, actions that have consequences either good or bad,reform etc,those who are the good ones will soon see the results,and hopefully that would be in monetary form.

But look ,this is the way things should be in both sectors.Progression is easier in the private sector and even easier when the unions are not involved.

If the deal is rejected it will be a win for the unions but a loss for the workers .IMHO.
 
Cork's post of Let the Public Service strike and see what happens is fairly naive. Just remember a few Juniors in the Passport Office over a few days brought more reaction than a general strike over any long term.

I wonder what was next. Perhaps, we will find out!!!!!!!
 
The reality is that the deal has to be put to a vote of all members of each union (with the possible exception of unite?). The executive committees can only make a recommendation to the members. SIPTU have recommended a yes vote and IMPACT is declining to recommend a yes vote, which isn't the same as as recommending a no vote. Some of the more moderate civil service unions are recommending acceptance such as the AHCPS. I'm not sure what the PSEU is recommending. We won't know the outcome until early May but its not looking good to be honest and some of the more militant unions could screw it up for those willing to accept it.
 
aonfocaleile said:
The reality is that the deal has to be put to a vote of all members of each union (with the possible exception of unite?). The executive committees can only make a recommendation to the members. SIPTU have recommended a yes vote and IMPACT is declining to recommend a yes vote, which isn't the same as as recommending a no vote. Some of the more moderate civil service unions are recommending acceptance such as the AHCPS. I'm not sure what the PSEU is recommending. We won't know the outcome until early May but its not looking good to be honest and some of the more militant unions could screw it up for those willing to accept it.
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I think the PSEU are recommending a Yes and Impact are now going back to Kieran Mulvey for clarification over certain issues, which would suggest they might change their recommendation.
I'm surprised that the CPSU are recommending rejection as if there is going to some reversal of pay cuts (and its a big if), their members will be first in line.
What may happen is the unions representing nurses/teachers/guards will recommend rejection as allowances are more common in these areas compared to other admin/clerical type grades.
 
NOAH said:
IMF = end of unreal working patterns, bring them on.
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Mention of IMF is simply an empty threat intended to scare union members into accepting the deal; the empty promise is no pay cuts or redundancies. Standard tactics, like on Lisbon2 where the empty threat was that we would be kicked out of the EU and the empty promise was "Yes for Jobs".
aonfocaleile said:
The reality is that the deal has to be put to a vote of all members of each union (with the possible exception of unite?).
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Unite members will be voting on the deal.
 
What happens if some unions vote to accept it and some don't? Is it an all or nothing situation?

Where do the ICTU stand in all this? I haven't heard anything from David Begg who you would imagaine as part of the board of the Central Bank is well aware of the consequences of voting no.
 
thedaras said:
There are a lot of people in the PS who feel totally tied,by militant unions and their reps.
I think these people should gather strength and not be bullied into submission by those with vested interests.
Maybe the time has come to revolt!
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Leave the union then.
 
Sunny said:
What happens if some unions vote to accept it and some don't? Is it an all or nothing situation?

Where do the ICTU stand in all this? I haven't heard anything from David Begg who you would imagaine as part of the board of the Central Bank is well aware of the consequences of voting no.
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Don't know what will happen if some accept and some reject but its worth remembering that 73% of PS workers are employed in health and education so if there is not aggreement there its hard to see how real progress will be made.

David Begg recommended a Yes vote on the deal last night.
http://www.independent.ie/national-...te-as-union-leader-supports-deal-2140407.html
 
Firefly said:
Glad you find this thread funny.

The big banks similiar to the PS IMO as has been pointed out in previous threads - what I'm talking about is what happens in the real growth engine of this economy, the SMEs and export-led organisations.
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I've worked in the SMEs and the export-led organisations, and they are really no different from the big banks or the big public service organisations. Most people work really hard most of the time. Some people don't. Some of the chancers get sorted out, some don't.

This myth of the 'self-correcting' private sector just doesn't stand up. When they screw up, they get bailed out by the State, either by bank bailouts, or by the State providing staff for private sector businesses and calling shelf stacking 'work experience' (see http://www.politics.ie/economy/126386-wpp1-2-latest-fas-scam-1.html)
 
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