It’s a tracker. The interest rate basis i.e. ECB base rate +1.25%, was included in some contracts or in additional documentation provided to customers but not all fixed to variable base customers received this information. EBS mortgage terms & conditions state that the interest rate basis is included in every contract but this was excluded on many of the fixed to variable base contracts.
EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?
- Thread starter tonymac
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It’s a tracker. The interest rate basis i.e. ECB base rate +1.25%, was included in some contracts or in additional documentation provided to customers but not all fixed to variable base customers received this information. EBS mortgage terms & conditions state that the interest rate basis is included in every contract but this was excluded on many of the fixed to variable base contracts.
haveaniceday
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who on the finance committee are the best people to talk to about EBS - I think its worth ramping up the pressure now - from the list of members i have only heard pearse doherty and michael mcgrath making any waves - is this unfair to other members?
Yeah, considering AIB/EBS haven't issued a official statement yet, it's worth writing to finance committee members to question on EBS. Personally, I think Michael McGrath, Pearse Doherty and Kieran O'Donnell are good at questioning and asking the right questions. I had emailed most of the members prior to the last central bank session to which Michael, Pearse & Peter Burke responded, but during the session only Michael, Pearse and Kieran questioned CB about EBS. I think it's important to clearly outline the case and note what specific questions to raise, as they may not fully understand the situation to ask right questions.
haveaniceday
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Hey there - I have just come acrosss some one with a fixed loan from ebs from APRIL 2008 -which after 2 years was to move onto that magical VARIABLE BASE RATE - but in the conditions of the loan the person had to have filled out a Tracker application prior to getting the mortgage - she is like everyone else not on a tracker? I have posted images - does this just highlight the total shambolic nature of this organisation that was perhaps cutting and pasting loan offers at random or even further proof that the variable base rate was of course a tracker - otherwise why woudl atracker application have to be filled out?
does any one else have a similar conditions
does any one else have a similar conditions
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There are many inconsistencies across the fixed to variable base loan offers as far as I can see. Most of them do not include the interest rate basis like other EBS contracts even though the EBS Mortgage T’s & C’s states that the interest rate basis is in the loan offers.
Fixed to Variable base rate offers that do include the interest rate basis reference a tracker margin (see YerGrands post) & now haveanicedays document that also references a tracker application. I have seen EBS documentation called a mortgage illustration sheet that defines the variable base rate as “a variable rate which is 1.25% above ECB Base Rate..” i.e. a tracker.
What does seem to be a consistent trend across the fixed to variable base contracts is that none of them reference a SVR as the rate a customer will roll onto after end of the fixed term...yet the SVR is what everyone of these customers are now paying on their mortgages. Go figure.
Fixed to Variable base rate offers that do include the interest rate basis reference a tracker margin (see YerGrands post) & now haveanicedays document that also references a tracker application. I have seen EBS documentation called a mortgage illustration sheet that defines the variable base rate as “a variable rate which is 1.25% above ECB Base Rate..” i.e. a tracker.
What does seem to be a consistent trend across the fixed to variable base contracts is that none of them reference a SVR as the rate a customer will roll onto after end of the fixed term...yet the SVR is what everyone of these customers are now paying on their mortgages. Go figure.
haveaniceday
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My homeloan offer document is really sloppy - instructions on closing that make no sense - like in one sentence they tell you to contact ebs and then two lines later it tells you to contact your broker for exactly the same thing?
My Buy to let loan offer is also a mess of contradictions - initially it says that the ebs can change the rate as they want - then when you go down a few paragraphs it says the rate can never be more than ECB +1.5 %
you could not make this This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language up!
People who worked there managing the business
e.g.
KIERAN TANSEY
DARA DEERING
the people that ran this EBS organisation....and now hold even more prominent positions in the financial services sector
Kieran tansey is head of haven mortgages today - https://www.havenmortgages.ie/intermediary-information/meet-the-team
Dara deering is the - Executive Director - Retail Banking at KBCI
Have they been invited to the finance committee - or who is held account for this absolute mess -
who increased the EBS loan book from 4 billion to 16 billion in about 4 years - between 2004- 2008- whose strategy was it to increase this loan book by targeting ... the broker network .. first time buyers ...pushing tracker mortgages products....
have a read of the EBS annual report from 2004 -
so today we have bascially countless... literally countless numbers of contracts given to people containing a completely undefined product - how amateur is this - how is it even possible ?
- and today EBS cannot even provide the terms and conditions these loan offers were based on - nothing they simply told me 'can't find it'-
- ask EBS today - what is a 'variable base rate' -and they said THEY DON'T KNOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wtf
who was supposed to regulate EBS
was there no oversight of this travesty
so how did this place have a license to operate ?
My Buy to let loan offer is also a mess of contradictions - initially it says that the ebs can change the rate as they want - then when you go down a few paragraphs it says the rate can never be more than ECB +1.5 %
you could not make this This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language up!
People who worked there managing the business
e.g.
KIERAN TANSEY
DARA DEERING
the people that ran this EBS organisation....and now hold even more prominent positions in the financial services sector
Kieran tansey is head of haven mortgages today - https://www.havenmortgages.ie/intermediary-information/meet-the-team
Dara deering is the - Executive Director - Retail Banking at KBCI
Have they been invited to the finance committee - or who is held account for this absolute mess -
who increased the EBS loan book from 4 billion to 16 billion in about 4 years - between 2004- 2008- whose strategy was it to increase this loan book by targeting ... the broker network .. first time buyers ...pushing tracker mortgages products....
have a read of the EBS annual report from 2004 -
so today we have bascially countless... literally countless numbers of contracts given to people containing a completely undefined product - how amateur is this - how is it even possible ?
- and today EBS cannot even provide the terms and conditions these loan offers were based on - nothing they simply told me 'can't find it'-
- ask EBS today - what is a 'variable base rate' -and they said THEY DON'T KNOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wtf
who was supposed to regulate EBS
was there no oversight of this travesty
so how did this place have a license to operate ?
haveaniceday
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the person above who had the requirement in her application to fill out the tracker form - to have a fixed mortage to then move onto a variable base rate...................was told this morning that they are now re-opening her case - as this condition now indicates that this person fact did in actual fact have a tracker mortgage - ???
you could not make this up ..........
you could not make this up ..........
Haveaniceday-Did an EBS staff member on the tracker helpline confirm to you that he/she does not know what a variable base rate is? They were telling me last year it was an SVR.
Did that person complete a tracker application form or was it just included in the conditions? Positive news either way as it confirms they are still identifying variable base rate accounts for the review even at this late stage of the game.
IdesofMarch
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B26534,
Can you post or PM the EBS mortgage illustration sheet referred to, it will be most helpful.
haveaniceday
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re: Haveaniceday-Did an EBS staff member on the tracker helpline confirm to you that he/she does not know what a variable base rate is? They were telling me last year it was an SVR.
So my friend called EBS yesterday to ask what a Variable base rate was and the response from a staff member was that they thought 'that meant a ecb base rate - as the base rate is the ecb rate'
I myself have asked the sars team in aib to send me a letter in writing stating that they do not have any records or know what my drawndown rate was based on - a question I sent in on my FOI for which they have no answer.
Also that they have no records of what my loan conditions are - and can give me none of the following - as they don't have any of these documents WHATSOEVER all referred to in my homelaon:
1)The EBS standard homeloan mortgage and booklet of conditions (referenced in the letter drawdown letter on issue of loan cheque) - in compliance with the consumer credit act 1995.
2)A copy of the following noted on the acceptance loan offer :
(ii) The general conditions for EBS home loans;
(iii) THE EBS building society mortgage conditions;
(iv) The EBS Building Society standard form of Home Loan Mortgage; and
(v) The rules of EBS
So my friend called EBS yesterday to ask what a Variable base rate was and the response from a staff member was that they thought 'that meant a ecb base rate - as the base rate is the ecb rate'
I myself have asked the sars team in aib to send me a letter in writing stating that they do not have any records or know what my drawndown rate was based on - a question I sent in on my FOI for which they have no answer.
Also that they have no records of what my loan conditions are - and can give me none of the following - as they don't have any of these documents WHATSOEVER all referred to in my homelaon:
1)The EBS standard homeloan mortgage and booklet of conditions (referenced in the letter drawdown letter on issue of loan cheque) - in compliance with the consumer credit act 1995.
2)A copy of the following noted on the acceptance loan offer :
(ii) The general conditions for EBS home loans;
(iii) THE EBS building society mortgage conditions;
(iv) The EBS Building Society standard form of Home Loan Mortgage; and
(v) The rules of EBS
haveaniceday
Registered User
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- 142
re: Haveaniceday-Did an EBS staff member on the tracker helpline confirm to you that he/she does not know what a variable base rate is? They were telling me last year it was an SVR.
So my friend called EBS yesterday to ask what a Variable base rate was and the response from a staff member was that they thought 'that meant a ecb base rate - as the base rate is the ecb rate'
I myself have asked the sars team in aib to send me a letter in writing stating that they do not have any records or know what my drawndown rate was based on - a question I sent in on my FOI for which they have no answer.
Also that they have no records of what my loan conditions are - and can give me none of the following - as they don't have any of these documents WHATSOEVER all referred to in my homelaon:
1)The EBS standard homeloan mortgage and booklet of conditions (referenced in the letter drawdown letter on issue of loan cheque) - in compliance with the consumer credit act 1995.
2)A copy of the following noted on the acceptance loan offer :
(ii) The general conditions for EBS home loans;
(iii) THE EBS building society mortgage conditions;
(iv) The EBS Building Society standard form of Home Loan Mortgage; and
(v) The rules of EBS
So my friend called EBS yesterday to ask what a Variable base rate was and the response from a staff member was that they thought 'that meant a ecb base rate - as the base rate is the ecb rate'
I myself have asked the sars team in aib to send me a letter in writing stating that they do not have any records or know what my drawndown rate was based on - a question I sent in on my FOI for which they have no answer.
Also that they have no records of what my loan conditions are - and can give me none of the following - as they don't have any of these documents WHATSOEVER all referred to in my homelaon:
1)The EBS standard homeloan mortgage and booklet of conditions (referenced in the letter drawdown letter on issue of loan cheque) - in compliance with the consumer credit act 1995.
2)A copy of the following noted on the acceptance loan offer :
(ii) The general conditions for EBS home loans;
(iii) THE EBS building society mortgage conditions;
(iv) The EBS Building Society standard form of Home Loan Mortgage; and
(v) The rules of EBS
haveaniceday
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just included in the conditions!
Just PM’d you there with mortgage illustration sheet. All of the important parties in the review have seen it including the central bank.
I’ve attached the EBS interest rate change documentation sent to variable base rate customers in 2006 and then in 2013; an increase of 0.25% documented on both occasions but underlying reasons for rate change differ. The 2006 rate change inked to ECB base rate increase & no reason for change offered in 2013. Note that there was no increase in the ECB base rate in 2013.
In 2014 AIB/EBS also confirmed that their SVR rate change is NOT linked to changes in the ECB base rate & therefore will “not apply to tracker mortgage holders.” (See attached). So ECB base rate change applied to variable base rate customers in 2006 but not post 2008.
In summary, this documentation shows that the variable basis of variable base loans has changed from being contingent upon ECB base rate to beng a SVR where EBS makes decision to change rate when they choose.
In 2014 AIB/EBS also confirmed that their SVR rate change is NOT linked to changes in the ECB base rate & therefore will “not apply to tracker mortgage holders.” (See attached). So ECB base rate change applied to variable base rate customers in 2006 but not post 2008.
In summary, this documentation shows that the variable basis of variable base loans has changed from being contingent upon ECB base rate to beng a SVR where EBS makes decision to change rate when they choose.
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MySunshine
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Long time following these threads. I took out mortgage in 2005 as a variable base rate. Nowhere in all my docs is there any mention of tracker. However, I found some letters from EBS stating the changes to the rates from Aug 2006 to Feb 2011, and it's very interesting how the wording changed over time.
Aug 2006: "Due to increase in ECB rates, your variable interest rate will rise by 0.25%"
Oct 2006: same as above
Dec 2006: same as above
March 2007: same as above
April 2008: "In line with recent industry movements, EBS is increasing its variable loan rate by 0.08%"
June 2008: "In light of recent increases in the cost of raising funds, EBS is increasing its variable loan rate by 0.20%"
July 2008: "Due to further increases in the cost of raising funds EBS is increasing its variable loan rate by 0.35%"
Oct 2008: "Due to a reduction in the ECB rate, EBS will be passing on the full decrease of 0.50% on its variable loan rate"
Dec 2008: "Due to a reduction in the ECB rate, EBS will be passing on the full decrease of 0.75% on its variable loan rate"
Jan 2009: as above, full decrease of 0.5%
Mar 2009: as above, full decrease of 0.5%
April 2009: as above, full decrease of 0.25%
July 2010: "We wish to inform you that the interest rate on your loan will increase by 0.6%". Here there is no mention of ECB or why its changing
Feb 2011: "We wish to inform you that the interest rate on your loan will increase by 0.6%". Here there is no mention of ECB or why its changing.
I don't know if this brings any further clarification to anyone, but to me, it seems very strange in light of other peoples dealings with EBS around the tracker v variable base rate.
Out of 14 rate changes, 9 of them reflected the ECB rates.
I lodged a complaint with EBS and have sent it to the ombudsman also. I will call EBS again and see if they are still "investigating" my account.
Glad to see so many of you were successful, finally, in getting back what was rightfully yours.
Aug 2006: "Due to increase in ECB rates, your variable interest rate will rise by 0.25%"
Oct 2006: same as above
Dec 2006: same as above
March 2007: same as above
April 2008: "In line with recent industry movements, EBS is increasing its variable loan rate by 0.08%"
June 2008: "In light of recent increases in the cost of raising funds, EBS is increasing its variable loan rate by 0.20%"
July 2008: "Due to further increases in the cost of raising funds EBS is increasing its variable loan rate by 0.35%"
Oct 2008: "Due to a reduction in the ECB rate, EBS will be passing on the full decrease of 0.50% on its variable loan rate"
Dec 2008: "Due to a reduction in the ECB rate, EBS will be passing on the full decrease of 0.75% on its variable loan rate"
Jan 2009: as above, full decrease of 0.5%
Mar 2009: as above, full decrease of 0.5%
April 2009: as above, full decrease of 0.25%
July 2010: "We wish to inform you that the interest rate on your loan will increase by 0.6%". Here there is no mention of ECB or why its changing
Feb 2011: "We wish to inform you that the interest rate on your loan will increase by 0.6%". Here there is no mention of ECB or why its changing.
I don't know if this brings any further clarification to anyone, but to me, it seems very strange in light of other peoples dealings with EBS around the tracker v variable base rate.
Out of 14 rate changes, 9 of them reflected the ECB rates.
I lodged a complaint with EBS and have sent it to the ombudsman also. I will call EBS again and see if they are still "investigating" my account.
Glad to see so many of you were successful, finally, in getting back what was rightfully yours.