What about men?

[Betsy Og]

Could be a lot of self-identifying going on, depending on which side is sheltered......

 

[Purple]

Could be a lot of self-identifying going on, depending on which side is sheltered......

I told my daughter that I want my pronoun to be “it”.
I’ll have to walk down the middle of the road

 

[mathepac]

Well holy god Biddie, who'da thunk?

 

[dereko1969]

In my opinion the problem with framing the dreadful attacks that men perpetrate on women as a women’s rights issue or a gender identity issue is that it creates an atmosphere of fear in half the population and bad decisions are made by people who are frightened. While extremely violent attacks by men on women do happen, they are statistically very rare. While people in general, and women in particular, should be cautious they should not live in fear. The gender politics aspect of this is very damaging to both men and women. It weakens women and it vilifies men. Women become victims and men become monsters. We head down the road of limiting freedoms to protect women from the possibility of attack and, bizarrely, women willingly adopt a role of inequality in which they have to be protected from men.

I don’t want my daughters to grow up in a world where their gender is framed in a Victorian notion of women being these frail creatures who faint when exposed to raw masculinity. I want them to know that they are qual and strong and can handle the vulgarities of the world. I hope they never need “Safe Spaces” or feel that voices they disagree with should be silenced, even when those voices are expressing obnoxious opinions. The reality is that a young man walking down the street is far more likely to be the victim of crime, including violent crime. We all need to be cautious and considerate and men do need to be educated on issues of consent and generally not being creepy and overbearing. All that is true, but framing women as the innocent victims and men as the coercive aggressor in every incident of abuse is not just damaging to both genders it is factually incorrect.

Victim of other men.

Bizarre suggestion. I walk faster than most women and many men. I do so to move between starting points and destinations as quickly as possible. I have no intention of crossing streets because of what I think someone else might think. Where does the second-guessing stop? Could I suggest that if my perfectly innocent behaviour causes discomfort for someone I approach from behind, then they can cross the street, enter a shop or take whatever proactive defensive measures they feel are appropriate, short of shooting me or screaming for the Guards?

It's about consideration of other people's needs, when you're on a bus and an older person is standing you would presumably offer them your seat. Crossing the road to make another person feel more comfortable and safe is in the same ballpark.

Let's make it the law.

Where footpaths exist, men can only walk on one footpath and women must only use the other; LAs to decide which is which and mark them with signs like the Jacks and Jacquilines.

On roadways where footpaths are not fitted, genders will be assigned specific days and hours where walking on roadways is permitted. LAs to mark roads appropriately. Non-gender specific people must cycle, but not after dark.

Do you have any females in your life? Ask them about the attitude you've displayed here.

 

[mathepac]

It's about consideration of other people's needs, when you're on a bus and an older person is standing you would presumably offer them your seat. Crossing the road to make another person feel more comfortable and safe is in the same ballpark.

I can see the fraility and potential vulnerability of an older person on a bus, I don't have to try mind-reading techniques. As for women walking ahead of me on the street do you mean their actual needs or my imagining of their needs? Or your perception of my imagining of their needs? Is this the new version of gender equality where men must do women's thinking for them and act accordingly?

I'm sorry if my attempt at a jocose remark passed you by, such is life.

 

[Purple]

Victim of other men.

How does that matter?
Is that all you took from my post?

 

[mathepac]

Some experts in the report linked to below strongly suggest that part of the answer to helping women not to feel fearful is to stop normalising their apparent feelings of fear.

What can society do to make women feel safer?

Girls grow up in a world where they are told that public spaces are dangerous for women - and that they must take steps of their own to stay safe.

www.rte.ie

"girls grow up in a world where they are told that public spaces are dangerous for women - and that they must take steps of their own to stay safe."

"But Ms Saidlear said a woman’s fear of some places, as well as public transport, can also come from being told from a young age about risk, about the clothes women wear and how women need to mind themselves.

"Women's fear is a social construct," she said."

"Director of the National Women’s Council of Ireland, Orla O'Connor, said that while messages for women to "keep safe" may seem practical, they can become ingrained and instill a sense of fear."

"She said the fear experienced by women is not always related to what is actually happening on the ground; it is linked to the way people are socialised. In other words, what we learn about the world as we grow up."

"Being told from a young age to be careful when outside the home normalises women being afraid of public places, Ms Edwards explained.

She added that the messaging women receive is not helpful - and only reinforces a cycle of fear. "There's a certain hopelessness about it," she said.

Ms Saidlear said these messages also tell women they are responsible for the perpetrator's behaviour, when in reality they have no control over this."

 

[dereko1969]

How does that matter?
Is that all you took from my post?

No, sorry that wasn't all I took from your post. I think I was still processing elements of it and hadn't fully made up my mind on it.
I did feel that it is important for us, as men, to reflect on who is committing the violence and why that might be, so that's why I quoted that specific part. There aren't generally gangs of girls going around beating up strangers (it does happen of course, but is very infrequent).

 

[Purple]

No, sorry that wasn't all I took from your post. I think I was still processing elements of it and hadn't fully made up my mind on it.
I did feel that it is important for us, as men, to reflect on who is committing the violence and why that might be, so that's why I quoted that specific part. There aren't generally gangs of girls going around beating up strangers (it does happen of course, but is very infrequent).

Yes, men are the perpetrators of the vast majority of physical violence in the world. They are also the victims of most of the physical violence in the world.
Where is becomes less clear is when it comes to phycological violence.

 

[Betsy Og]

Fear, of itself, it not so much the problem, it's when it becomes reality. Fear makes us check carefully before crossing the street, if it turns out there's nothing to fear then fine.

Sensible precautions, which they might introduce/reinforce a sense of fear, might keep you safe. This is where the victim blaming rabbithole comes into play. I walk blind drunk through a dodgy part of town with my wallet in my back pocket - I get mugged. You tell me I was stupid, I say you're victim blaming, should I not be allowed to walk through dodgy areas blind drunk, and on and on it goes.

I'm inclined to think killers gonna kill, but for the 99.9% who mean no harm, I don't see the problem with us taking simple steps to make the more vulnerable feel safe.

If I see a biker behind me when I'm driving, I move a little to the left* to let him/her pass without crossing the white line, it enhances safety, maybe they didn't need me to do it, but it cost me nothing so why not. (*I'd recommend checking mirror/shoulder check first - those bleedin' cyclists get everywhere)

 

[Purple]

This is where the victim blaming rabbithole comes into play. I walk blind drunk through a dodgy part of town with my wallet in my back pocket - I get mugged. You tell me I was stupid, I say you're victim blaming, should I not be allowed to walk through dodgy areas blind drunk, and on and on it goes.

And it is a rabbithole and very loaded with preconceptions of what people's real agendas are.