What about a campaign to encourage people to pay the Household Charge?

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I don't agree with this tax or how the government have gone about introducing it and right now I am not inclined to pay it. I may buckle as at heart I am a goody goody but right now I feel like making a stand and lets face it what will the stand cost me, €20? Oooh big whoop! It will be a small price to pay if the government get a collective kicking from joe public.

I know some of you will think I am petty or picking the wrong fight but I seriously think the pro paying campaign are underestimating people's apathy towards this tax. For me it embodies everything that is wrong with this country. Making the government sweat, even if it is just for a few weeks or months and sending a strong message to the EU,the Troika and anyone else that thinks we are the whipping boys of Europe gives me a certain satisfaction. We are supposed to be the fighting Irish and it is time we stood up for ourselves. I want the government to know I'm not happy with them. I want justice, I want someone to pay for the mess we are in. I want them to prosecute the wayward bankers and builders, strip them of all their assets, jail them.

I am not saying we should do what the Greeks did but in our way (peaceful and not too damaging) we get to say 'Enough'. Get your extra taxes from the wealthy, stop protecting yourselves and your cronies and make everyone pay their fair share.

They say it goes towards cleaning the streets, lighting, grass cutting and other essential maintenance the councils 'supposedly' carry out. I say supposedly because they do the bare minimum. Tell the victims of flooding why the drains are clogged with leaves, why there is rubbish everywhere, why there are holes in the roads, why concrete paths are being lifted by roots of trees they planted in estates all over Dublin and they never fix, why temporary 'tarmac' road coverings have yet to be replaced by concrete even though they charge utility companies reinstatement charges to do so, why they lumbered us with Greyhound for our bins without much notice or alternative etc etc. The councils are useless and paying them another €100 with no guarantee the services they provide will get any better irks me.

This is what is making me hold off not some anti household charge campaign. I am a good law abiding citizen. I have paid every tax they imposed, every penny I owe, I give to charity, I pay the residents association a small fee to help keep my estate looking well etc and I resent being made to feel I am some militant Sinn Feiner because I don't agree with this tax.

I don't think it is fair to tar normal people with being aligned to the People before Profit or Sinn Fein ideology just because they oppose the tax. I for one don't believe in their politics but I also don't believe in the current government's. They are just following the same policies as Fianna Fail before them. Truth is we do what the EU tell us regardless of who is in power. You only have to look at the German government discussing Irish policy before the Irish do to see this. The best we can hope for is decent TD's at a local level regardless of party affiliations. I vote for those that are active in the community, that are available to their constituents and generally care about issues effecting the area's they live in.

The middle classes have had enough. We can't pay for everyone's mistakes. I'm tired of bearing the brunt of the recession and an indiscriminate tax like this is just another example of how out of touch our government are with the people of Ireland.

Is it so wrong that I want them to know this?
 
MB05 said:
I seriously think the pro paying campaign are underestimating people's apathy towards this tax.
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If people are apathetic then they will simply pay the tax with out much fuss. If the anti property precursor tax people are successfull then the will awaken the masses from their apathetic slumber and we will have mass non payment of the tax.


Brendan,
Im still trying to think of a good pro tax campaign and can only think of the environmentalists (plastic bag tax and carbon taxes) and health lobbyists (higher prices for cigarettes and alcohol) and the trade lobbyists (import duties) but not of these bear much similarity to the circumstances surrounding the property precursor tax.

Would you consider a pro septic tank registration charge campaign? or a pro rod licence charge campaign?

aj
 
T McGibney said:
People opposed to the household charge should note that Sinn Féin are running a local tax system in Northern Ireland that costs every household the best part of £1,000 each year.
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Yes, and there is a distinct difference between the council tax and our household charge. The former delivers services - REAL tangible services. Drawing on past experience - it's doubtful if the latter will - at least not to the same extent.
 
I think what MB05 meant to write was antipathy, rather than apathy. Much stronger. S/He was just carried away by the strength of his feelings. Which are very much mine also, and very widespread.
That is why a campaign to persuade people to pay this tax stands no chance.
 
I would encourage others to pay this charge for no other reason than to send Daly et al a message...I do think that the charge for not paying by March 31st is too low , people will delay payment and Daly et al will take the credit for the low numbers paying.
Lets be honest here,if we had a 100e ESB bill and after 6 months of non payment we were only charge 10e then most would wait the 6 months!
A campaign to encourage a big increase in the penalty's for non payment would certainly help,watch that space as soon as the penalty charge increase to 1000e ...
 
What a stupid reason to encourage anyone to pay a tax. Also there is no comparison with this charge and an electricity bill.
 
thedaras said:
A campaign to encourage a big increase in the penalty's for non payment would certainly help,watch that space as soon as the penalty charge increase to 1000e ...
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Thankfully we live in a civilised democracy so this sort of bullying strategy will never be a realistic option. For a country that is loudly proclaimed to have shook off our Catholic heritage, many of us seem still to have an intense collective desire for self-flagellation.
 
thedaras makes a good point. Because the date is fast approaching, and as I haven't a huge amount of disposable income to hand until I get paid again on 30 March, I decided to check the late payment fees. I was very surprised to see that if I put off paying this until August, it will eventually cost me ~115 Euro (per property).

Even people who intend to pay it but want to register some kind of protest will find it easy enough to do nothing by 31 March, if their "protest" is only going to cost them a tenner ...


From the government website, https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk16 :

(1) LATE PAYMENT FEES​




The late payment fee to apply in the case of a Household Charge paid:
  • not later than 6 months after the due date, is 10% of the amount outstanding;
  • later than 6 months and not later than 12 months after the due date, is 20 % of the amount outstanding; or
  • later than 12 months after the due date, is 30 % of the amount outstanding.
(2) LATE PAYMENT INTEREST​




Late payment interest of 1% per month or part thereof will apply to unpaid amounts.​
 
Agreed. The late payment charge should be related in some way to the cost of collecting it.

Even better would have been to set a charge of €150 with a payment date of 30 June. But those paying by the 31 March get a discount of €50.

People hate fines but they love discounts.

Brendan
 
ANORAKPHOBIA said:
What a stupid reason to encourage anyone to pay a tax. Also there is no comparison with this charge and an electricity bill.
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You think having to pay a hefty fine is a "stupid reason"? Tell that to the thousands who are encouraged to submit their tax returns on time! I never said there was a comparison between the Esb and Household charge,perhaps read what Ive posted slowly..The use of the ESB was an example
of how a tiny fine would be no incentive to pay.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Agreed. The late payment charge should be related in some way to the cost of collecting it.

Even better would have been to set a charge of €150 with a payment date of 30 June. But those paying by the 31 March get a discount of €50.

People hate fines but they love discounts.

Brendan
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Couldn't agree more, there was signs in various services of carrot rather than stick approach towards bill payments, alas it seems to be all stick of late.

Additionally in relation to people claiming we don't get the same services as other countries i.e. UK council tax, I know from experience that the levels of service in the UK are certainly not consistent across the board, it depends on where you live.

Furthermore how do we expect to ever have services if we are not willing to fund them? Equally as a small economy, dispersed population we will have to compromise somewhere because of those economies of scale. If we are to look at like for like size-wise we should be probably be aiming to have something similar to Denmark rather than the UK, France or Germany. Don't think that will be very popular though.
 
ANORAKPHOBIA said:
No matter how slowly one reads the above it is still a stupid reason.
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Could you try be a little rational ,less offensive or just read the posting guidelines..
Re reading my post slowly,I now have to tell you to read my second and first post again..Very SLowly as you have not grasped either one..what part of "I was not comparing the ESB bill to the Household charge,Do You not understand?
You keep saying that by my encouraging others to pay if for nothing elkse but to send a message to Daly et al ,is a stupid reason,but you have not said why?
Most would understand that by paying the household charge it would send Daly et al the message that their campaign has not worked as the reverse is also true,you seem to have trouble grasping this though...
 
Folks

Can you please stick to the issues here and avoid personalised attacks.

Describing an idea as "stupid" starts a row. Feel free to disagree with ideas, but avoid words such as "stupid"
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Agreed. The late payment charge should be related in some way to the cost of collecting it.

Even better would have been to set a charge of €150 with a payment date of 30 June. But those paying by the 31 March get a discount of €50.

People hate fines but they love discounts.

Brendan
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Unfortunately the hamfisted promotion and administration of the Household Charge system to date clearly betrays the fact that the people behind it have little or no 'real world' business experience, and begs the question as to why we are raising even more taxes to be spent and misspent by these people.
 
Actually Brendan, perhaps if those in power made it clearer/an absolute that this must be paid ,it would help to ensure more do pay it,so maybe having Kenny saying something like this,while also letting people know that Daly and Co are incorrect?

The opposers are making it seem like its no problem not to pay this, the ahh shure they cant jail us all attitude,therefore those less inclined to pay,wont...
 
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The only way they encourage me to pay this double taxation is by showing me how and where they plan on spending this , how much tax is collected in my local council area and where it goes ,
Just like they do with the motor tax :(
 
Time said:
It is true, they couldn't possibly jail all the non payers.
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While this is true, it is wrong..
There would be a breakdown in society if we all decided that some of the taxes we pay are unfair and therefore if we all stop paying them ,sure they cant jail us all..

If its the case that we do things based on the fact that they cant jail us all,why stop at the household charge?

For example I don't feel its fair that half of the income in my household goes in tax,I dont feel its fair that I pay a household charge when I paid 40k on stamp duty,so how about those of us who pay half of our income in tax and those who paid huge amounts of stamp duty, refuse to pay it because they cant jail us all,oh wait a minute its taken at source..this is probably what will happen with he household charge.
 
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