What about a campaign to encourage people to pay the Household Charge?

[truthseeker]

I don't know of one person who has paid or intends to pay.

I do know one person who has paid, but they dont support it. But overall Im of the impression from media reports, websites like this, boards.ie, Facebook, conversations with friends, overheard at the gym, posters put up locally etc... that most people do not support this tax and Im absolutely baffled as to why Brendan opened this thread with the assertion that

I would imagine that the vast majority of people support the household charge and other taxes, even if they don't like paying them.

and what gives him reasons to believe or come up with this assertion?

Im genuinely interested to know how someone is thinking that the vast majority of people support this, when it seems perfectly obvious to me that the truth is quite the opposite.

 

[callybags]

People who aren't strongly opposed to something seldom make their feelings known. This is why it appears that there is a majority who say they won't pay.

Everyone I know who is liable for this tax either has paid or intend to pay by the end of March.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I do know one person who has paid, but they dont support it. But overall Im of the impression from media reports, websites like this, boards.ie, Facebook, conversations with friends, overheard at the gym, posters put up locally etc... that most people do not support this tax and Im absolutely baffled as to why Brendan opened this thread with the assertion that



and what gives him reasons to believe or come up with this assertion?

Im genuinely interested to know how someone is thinking that the vast majority of people support this, when it seems perfectly obvious to me that the truth is quite the opposite.

The only survey data which I can find is the Sunday Times poll on the Household Charge.

44% intend to pay by 31 March
36% say that they won't pay it
20% are undecided.

Most people I know agree that they should pay their taxes. I do know a few who understate their income and cheat on their taxes, while happy to claim all the state benefits they can.

But as Callybags says, most people don't shout about something they support. It's the opponents who shout the loudest.

I remember going to a Residents' Association meeting about the proposal to introduce disk parking in the locality. It seemed obviously a good idea to me, but the vast majority of the speakers were vehemently opposed to it. This included the committee of the Residents' Association. Only one or two people were brave enough to speak in favour of it. When the secret ballot was conducted by the City Council, it had around a 90% majority in favour.

People don't like paying taxes. But they know that they are needed to provide the services we use. So I would expect that most people will pay this tax.

 

[truthseeker]

But as Callybags says, most people don't shout about something they support. It's the opponents who shout the loudest.

Fair enough - be interesting to see the numbers by March 31st.

 

[ajapale]

I think the idea of a campaign to encourage people to pay the property precursor tax (Household Charge) is naive and a little daft.

I would like an option to "pay under protest". Perhaps a tick box to register this and a tally at the end of the year.

Or how about decent discounts for early payers? Say a sliding scale -20% two months early -10% one month early. 0% on time etc.

 

[T McGibney]

I remember going to a Residents' Association meeting about the proposal to introduce disk parking in the locality. It seemed obviously a good idea to me, but the vast majority of the speakers were vehemently opposed to it. This included the committee of the Residents' Association. Only one or two people were brave enough to speak in favour of it. When the secret ballot was conducted by the City Council, it had around a 90% majority in favour.

I'm always suspicious of votes that command a 90% majority. I wonder what % of residents voted in this secret ballot. And I wonder how they would vote now if the ballot was repeated. Some friends who live not far from Dublin city centre tell me that disk parking is a disaster for them as visiting friends, relatives, babysitters etc have to pay €2.90 an hour to park until midnight, 7 days a week.

 

[Purple]

Maybe so if you're doing a tax exam, but hardly if you're paying them.

Why?
I paid stamp duty on my house which is now in negative equity but I see no connection between that and the household charge.
Paying stamp duty probably saved me money; without that cost, which was not something I could add to the cost when applying for a mortgage, the price of my house would have been higher. It was a tax that took available money out of the hands of the seller, not the buyer.

 

[Purple]

I would imagine that the vast majority of people support the household charge and other taxes, even if they don't like paying them.

But the protests by the vocal minority who oppose them get a lot of attention.

How would those of us who support the charge campaign in its favour?

Here are some ideas -

Maybe organise a day in mid March "Pay your Household Charge today"
Issue stickers "I have paid my household charge"
Help relatives and neighbours who don't have internet access to pay online.
Put up posters

I like the idea of a media campaign that gives voice to those of us who see it as their duty to pay their taxes.
I’m not a fan of the current tax but I an 100% supportive of a property tax based on the value of the asset. I just hope that there won’t be a raft of exemptions and we don’t end up in a situation where people who are asset rich but on a low income can get away without paying it.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Purple said

I’m not a fan of the current tax but I an 100% supportive of a property tax based on the value of the asset.

Agreed.

 

[mcloving]

I would imagine that the vast majority of people support the household charge and other taxes, even if they don't like paying them.

But the protests by the vocal minority who oppose them get a lot of attention.

How would those of us who support the charge campaign in its favour?

Here are some ideas -

Maybe organise a day in mid March "Pay your Household Charge today"
Issue stickers "I have paid my household charge"
Help relatives and neighbours who don't have internet access to pay online.
Put up posters

Who are you representing???#

Put up posters, ridiculous.

Oh it is an Aprils fools joke phew..

 

[Woodie]

No one likes paying tax so I can't see how a campaign to actively support paying tax would ever catch on.
I realize the distress the country is in and I have paid the tax. I think the problem have is the concept of the unknown down the line, especially if income is uncertain.

I’m not a fan of the current tax but I an 100% supportive of a property tax based on the value of the asset. I just hope that there won’t be a raft of exemptions and we don’t end up in a situation where people who are asset rich but on a low income can get away without paying it.

Having lived in the UK with Council Tax which steadily increased to sizable sums regardless of income or ability to pay, I am totally against tax organized in this way. Personally I "prefer" (I use this word with caution) a local income tax. Normally it is not possible to sell up your asset if you have a blip in income.

 

[Leaky1]

I paid it because it is a tax imposed by a democratically elected Government. No different to raising income tax. I certainly don't agree that someone living in a one bed shoe box who is already paying management fees for various services should pay the same charge as someone living in 25 bedroom mansion even if this is supposedly only temporary. It is a lazy regressive tax.

I paid it 2 weeks ago. I don't agree with it. It's just more money into a large blackhole - if it paid for council services/roads/etc I would happier to pay it.

I live in a one-bed shoebox and pay management fees, and the mortgage is double that of any possible sale price even after putting lumpsums of savings to pay it down faster. Oh, and it's not even a sweet tracker rate.

But I paid it and hope to god that whatever they bring in to replace it next year will be more equitable.

 

[Protocol]

To those that say they don't know anybody who has paid, I know plenty of people who have paid.

 

[Woodie]

I paid it 2 weeks ago. I don't agree with it. It's just more money into a large blackhole - if it paid for council services/roads/etc I would happier to pay it.
.

In the UK council tax is split mostly to education (abt 80% I remember), policing and rubbish collection. However there is a huge difference in rates within the system where people in Chelsea pay less than poorer areas of London for example.
Transparency in government spending and running the country like a business, sacking employees who don't perform, fixed contracts, the things we thought we were promised by the so called Croke Park agreement and then I'd be happer to buy into this new tax.

But I paid it and hope to god that whatever they bring in to replace it next year will be more equitable.

I fear that whatever they bring in will not be equitable if only based on property value with disregard to ability to pay.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I think the idea of a campaign to encourage people to pay the property precursor tax (Household Charge) is naive and a little daft.

I don't know why people think it's daft?

There is a major and loud campaign from a small vocal minority not to pay this tax. They give the impression that the majority are against paying the tax. It would be useful to have some sort of citizens' group who promote the idea of paying taxes, whether we approve of the taxes or the way they are spent.

People are fully entitled to campaign for reform of the tax. They are fully entitled to campaign to have the tax abolished. But while the tax is there, they should not be campaigning for people not to pay it.

I have spoken to a few people since starting the thread. None had paid although all of them intend paying it before the end of March. One said she was waiting for a bill. The other had read the Freeman Nonsense and thought that maybe he didn't have to pay it.

Maybe a public campaign would not take off, but those of us who are paying it should be telling people that we are paying it and encouraging others to do so as well.

Brendan

 

[truthseeker]

........those of us who are paying it should be telling people that we are paying it and encouraging others to do so as well.

Would you normally go round telling people youve paid your taxes and encouraging them to do the same? Its a bit patronising isnt it? What is the motive for such an action?

 

[thedaras]

Id imagine there is a lot of bravdo around and the figures will tell the real story.
And as Brendan said

But the protests by the vocal minority who oppose them get a lot of attention

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Would you normally go round telling people youve paid your taxes and encouraging them to do the same?

Absolutely not. I would not normally do it.

But there isn't usually a well orchestrated campaign telling people not to pay their taxes. We need to counteract that campaign.

 

[Time]

Why?

That is the job of the government.

 

[truthseeker]

We need to counteract that campaign.

Why? As Time says, its that not the governments job?