Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) Query

[wjc]

Hi
Have english reg car to pay vrt on. Vrt around 12k on revenue website. Good few extras on car like leather, sat-nav, parking sensors, bluetooth. Now these would have been standard on model when it was bought. What is the best way to ensure that I do not have to pay more than 12k. Should I Email them with chassis no. and get a few quotes from different offices? How many of the vehicles are actually inspected? Are some vrt offices less likely to inspect car? Any suggestions from someone who has had a similar experience?

 

[Conshine]

Ang1170, the previous postings are contradicting what you say:

Please don't pay VRT, stand up and be counted as an EU citizen.

1) Article 25 of EU Leglisation states that "Customs duties on imports and exports and charges having the equivelant effect shall be prohibeted between member states. - (A registration Tax of STG50 has already been applied on the car thatyou imported from the UK car so this cannot be charged a second time) - You should also look up Article 90 re free trade between EU member states....€9,500 isn't exactly what you would call Free Trade...

2) You should email every Vehicle registration office in the country with your VIN number to find out how much VRT you would have to pay (The reason you should use the VIN number is so that the VRO know the exact makeup of your car including all extras) - I guarentee that you wlll not receive the same quote twice and there will be at least €3,000 in the difference between the lowest and highest quote - Not exactly an open and transparent system!!!!

3) Custom officers or the Guards cannot impound your car unless you willingly hand over your keys - For instance if your car is worth €30,000 and you owe the revenue €9,500 the law of proporationality (EU Leglisilation) states that customs and only sieze your property worth upto €9,500 max. This makes since as to take an item worth €30k for a debt worth €9K is something you wouldn't even see in the Sopranos.
(This is why customs officers have to use intimidation to get you to hand over your keys "willingly") - DO NOT HAND OVER YOUR KEYS)

4) Join www.irishdrivers.org to help you with backup in case customs try any dirty tricks

5) The European Court of Justice has already condemed VRT in Ireland

A good friend of mine (who also invested in blackstones EU legislation and is a member of www.irishdrivers.org) bought a BMW 3 Series in the UK nearly a year ago now. In April of this year 3 customs officers arrive at his house on a Saturday morning.
They demanded that he hands over the keys as the car is illegal to drive in Ireland....followed by some more BS....some more info re tax evasion....they will call the guards if he doesn't comply.....and on and on...........so my friend just kept very calm during this lecture and refused to hand over the keys.
He told the customs guy's that he was currently in negotiations with the depatment of revenue - After about an hour the customs guys left and he hasn't heard anything since - He still is driving his BMW 320 with UK plates

Surfmaster, what happened?

i too have gone to the uk and brought back a far better car that i would have got in ireland.... eventually paid vrt becuase of the wife going on about breaking the law.. am going back over next month buying a honda accord CDTI exec... for a bragain price compared to rip off ireland and this time i won't be paying any VRT !!!!

Legend, are you in jail?

Hi folks,

I am currently working away on the site but I need some regular contributors with regards to EU and Irish legislation on VRT
www.abolishvrt.ie

Ardee, hows the site coming along?

Hello all,

Very interesting reading, will be sending my €10 to irishdrivers.org & look forward to http://www.abolishvrt.ie/ once up & running, I am going over to liverpool very soon to purchase a second hand BMW. On my return I will be insuring the car with english plates.
I have two questions; what happens when road tax runs out on the car, can anyone seize the car for not having road tax?
Second how do I get a list of e-mail address for VRT offices around the country to compare the VRT for my car? Does anyone have this list?

Thanks

FYI- still have my car registered in another member state and i've no intention of paying any vrt on it, i will go to jail first!

Surfmaster, are you sharing a cell with Legend?


In my sisters case, the car was paid for in the UK in full.
Taxed in the UK
Insured in the UK
She moved to Ireland
Now insured in Ireland
Still has a UK tax disc
Still has UK plates
Has not paid any VRT

Will she go to jail?
Will she be able to get an Irish tax disc?
Will she go to jail if she does not get an Irish tax disc when the UK one expires?

 

[ang1170]

Ang1170, the previous postings are contradicting what you say:

Which bit of what I said does any of this contradict?

Just becuase the law may not be enforced (yet) in some particular circumstances, doesn't mean to say the law doesn't exist or isn't applied in other cases.

Don't get me wrong: I completely disagree with VRT for all sorts of reasons, but I for one would not recommend simply ignoring it as a particularly wise choice.

 

[stir crazy]

Sorry that I've asked this in another thread already a few days ago but this seems to be a more appropriate thread for this particular question.



Is my sister for example allowed import a car from London (where she is working) to Ireland in her own name with english plates and an english address to drive for when she visits home ?
In such a case, Is there anything to stop me driving somebody elses (a relatives) car which I dont own after it is imported ? Hence I get to drive the car but nobody has to pay VRT.

Some friends of a friend are doing exactly this and they seem to be getting away with it.
Are there any pitfalls or a downside I dont see ?

 

[sse]

Hi Stir

In the cases you have suggested you're not actually importing the car as you're leaving it on the UK plates (and, presumably, taxing it, MOTing it and insuring it in the UK). Under those circumstances you are allowed to drive in other EU states temporarily. In Ireland I think the limit is 6 months before you have to re-register the car. If you do not do so then you run the risk of the Revenue prosecuting you for the VRT.

Also, your UK insurance cover will only cover you for temporary use abroad. So, for example, you crash into the back of a car and an occupant of that car gets injured. Your story would quickly unravel if you can not provide any documentary proof of when you brought the car abroad (the insurance company WILL ask for this proof). In that case they would probably drop their cover down to the Legal third party minimum. You would be well advised to read the small print in your policy carefully.

To answer the other questions - yes you can get Irish insurance on a UK-registered car. However it's a bit of a dead giveaway that you're actually Irish resident (and therefore not a temporary visitor) isn't it?

I don't see how you can possibly get Irish tax on a UK-registered car as you need the registration certificate (or the form you get when you register the car, at least).

As for the tax issue, it's worth noting that France, in particular, has started clamping down heavily on the huge number of untaxed UK cars in their country (clustered round destination airports for low-cost airlines). The sooner the same happens here with all the Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian etc. deathtraps over here the better.

Incidentally, I imported a car over here on an OMSP of €11997. After an appeal this was revised to €8750 and I was refunded!

SSE

 

[westside]

SSE,

Would you mind let us know how you handled the appeal? Did you have to give some evidence that the OMSP figure was too high and if so did you have to give some proof etc?

Thanks.

 

[Conshine]

Which bit of what I said does any of this contradict?

Hi Ang1170
There are lots of topics on this site that as they get longer, the more people that add their thoughts and ideas and then confusion and conflict sets in. Just look at the contradictions between some AAM users in the discussion about the First Active interest when you hit €15,000.
Anyway, nothing can be done about that and it is up to the individual to get what they can from a particular post.

This post is of particular interest to me, which is why I am trying to pick out the relevant parts that affects a family member.

There are comments like:
"Please don't pay VRT, stand up and be counted as an EU citizen."
"He told the customs guy's that he was currently in negotiations with the depatment of revenue - After about an hour the customs guys left and he hasn't heard anything since - He still is driving his BMW 320 with UK plates"
"am going back over next month buying a honda accord CDTI exec... for a bragain price compared to rip off ireland and this time i won't be paying any VRT !!!!"
"FYI- still have my car registered in another member state and i've no intention of paying any vrt on it, i will go to jail first!"
On the other hand, some are saying that you must pay this VRT, otherwise, you are breaking the law and will go to prison.

I am actally posting on behalf of my sister - she does not do computers and is happily driving around in a UK registered / Irish insured car.
She has recently bought a flat, has her PPS number, works full time in Ireland and pays tax.
So she is now resident - there is no denying that.
She will come up against a problem when her UK road tax runs out.
She will be forced to pay about 10K VRT so that she can get Irish road tax to legally drive the car here.
10K she does not have.

But the guys above are saying they do not and will not pay VRT - Are they driving UK registered cars with Irish insurance but no road tax?

 

[legend]

conshine,

no still here !!!!!!!! have the honda accord and still haven't paid the vrt, even though the gardai have been told to clamp down on the english reg plates, they are taking your details and passing onto customs... gardai can't actually do anything except scare you !! most of them to be fair will give you 10 days to clear it once you produce eveidence at loca garda station... happened to a friend last week, he had it 6 months and the vrt had dropped by a 1,000.. not bad, better in your hand than the revenue...

going back over now in june .july and buying another diesel for the lower vrt and tax rates.... are people mad buying cars here !!!!!!!!!

another friend both a 05 x3 - last weekend... will save over 10,000 once cleared.... rip off ireland is alive and well!!!!!!

 

[legend]

sorry only read the end of your message now !!!

i will pay when i have to... like i did witht he bmw and still saved over 6,000 i reckon...

you can get insurance no prob on the english plates that doesn't matter the insurance company is covering the type of car, plates are only for ID..

gardai are not interested in the tax element..

tell her drive away!!!

happy motoring

 

[Conshine]

gardai are not interested in the tax element..

Thanks for the comments !!

So although illegal, the Guards are not too bothered about a car displaying an out of date tax disc?

Will have to make sure she doesnt take the car back to the UK - She would get caught out straight away.

 

[sse]

Remember that in the UK you have to either tax the car or declare it off the road to avoid a fine under continuous registration.

I'd be very surprised if not re-registering the car in Ireland in didn't invalidate/downgrade your insurance. The basic point is that it's illegal to drive it under the circumstances described.

As regards the VRT appeal, the stages are:
1) Pay the VRT requested :-(
2) Apply for a review, providing evidence of cars for sale to support your claim
3) Wait approx. 2 months
4) Pay the cheque in

The office (in Rosslare) appears to be swamped so they are taking approx. twice as long to process as the SLA indicates.

SSE

 

[Conshine]

I'd be very surprised if not re-registering the car in Ireland in didn't invalidate/downgrade your insurance. The basic point is that it's illegal to drive it under the circumstances described.

She got a Green Card for one month from her insurer in the UK, then cancelled it and got insured with an Irish insurer.
That shouldnt be a problem should it?

 

[stir crazy]

Hi Stir

In the cases you have suggested you're not actually importing the car as you're leaving it on the UK plates (and, presumably, taxing it, MOTing it and insuring it in the UK). Under those circumstances you are allowed to drive in other EU states temporarily. In Ireland I think the limit is 6 months before you have to re-register the car. If you do not do so then you run the risk of the Revenue prosecuting you for the VRT.

Also, your UK insurance cover will only cover you for temporary use abroad. So, for example, you crash into the back of a car and an occupant of that car gets injured. Your story would quickly unravel if you can not provide any documentary proof of when you brought the car abroad (the insurance company WILL ask for this proof). In that case they would probably drop their cover down to the Legal third party minimum. You would be well advised to read the small print in your policy carefully.

To answer the other questions - yes you can get Irish insurance on a UK-registered car. However it's a bit of a dead giveaway that you're actually Irish resident (and therefore not a temporary visitor) isn't it?

I don't see how you can possibly get Irish tax on a UK-registered car as you need the registration certificate (or the form you get when you register the car, at least).

As for the tax issue, it's worth noting that France, in particular, has started clamping down heavily on the huge number of untaxed UK cars in their country (clustered round destination airports for low-cost airlines). The sooner the same happens here with all the Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian etc. deathtraps over here the better.

Incidentally, I imported a car over here on an OMSP of €11997. After an appeal this was revised to €8750 and I was refunded!

SSE

Hi SSE,

If my non resident (working in London) sister manages to keep her car in the republic without paying VRT , am I legally allowed to drive her car ? The basic premise would be she imported the car for her own use when visiting home.
Am I not legally allowed drive any car I want as long as my insurance covers it ?
How are some people I know managing to drive high spec BMWs (for example) like this for the last 2 years and get away with it , are they just lucky

 

[sse]

Conshine/Stir

I'm not setting myself up as some sort of insurance expert, do not rely on anything I say! My expectation, however, is that an insurance company would look at the exact circumstances very carefully if they were to discover, for example, that an Irish resident had been driving a UK-registered car in Ireland for several months without re-registering it when they should have and they had to make a claim. I can only recommend that you check with your respective insurers and/or read your policies carefully.

As for the VRT scenarios outlined they would appear to me, as a layman, to be tax evasion. I am sure the Revenue, Garda and Courts have heard all the excuses before so it's up to the individual to decide what to do.

SSE

 

[ang1170]

There are comments like:
"Please don't pay VRT, stand up and be counted as an EU citizen."
"He told the customs guy's that he was currently in negotiations with the depatment of revenue - After about an hour the customs guys left and he hasn't heard anything since - He still is driving his BMW 320 with UK plates"
"am going back over next month buying a honda accord CDTI exec... for a bragain price compared to rip off ireland and this time i won't be paying any VRT !!!!"
"FYI- still have my car registered in another member state and i've no intention of paying any vrt on it, i will go to jail first!"
On the other hand, some are saying that you must pay this VRT, otherwise, you are breaking the law and will go to prison.

These are not mutually contradictory statements (if the second one is corrected to read "...and may go to prison" rather than "..will go to prison".

People break the law all the time and offer up all sorts of defences and excuses. They may or may not get caught. When caught, they may or may not be prossecuted. If prosecuted, they may or may not be fined or imprisoned.

Where's the contradiction betwen saying "doing X is against the law" and "I've done X and I've got away with it"?

Hopefully, this clarifies things for you.

 

[ang1170]

On the related topic of whether or not the insurance is valid or not, it will be stated in the policy documentation exactly who is covered and in exactly what circumstances. As policies are different, there is no generic answer to the question of "am I covered". Check the policy, and if unclear, with the insurance company.

 

[dreamatic]

Hi Stir

In the cases you have suggested you're not actually importing the car as you're leaving it on the UK plates (and, presumably, taxing it, MOTing it and insuring it in the UK). Under those circumstances you are allowed to drive in other EU states temporarily. In Ireland I think the limit is 6 months before you have to re-register the car. If you do not do so then you run the risk of the Revenue prosecuting you for the VRT.

Also, your UK insurance cover will only cover you for temporary use abroad. So, for example, you crash into the back of a car and an occupant of that car gets injured. Your story would quickly unravel if you can not provide any documentary proof of when you brought the car abroad (the insurance company WILL ask for this proof). In that case they would probably drop their cover down to the Legal third party minimum. You would be well advised to read the small print in your policy carefully.

To answer the other questions - yes you can get Irish insurance on a UK-registered car. However it's a bit of a dead giveaway that you're actually Irish resident (and therefore not a temporary visitor) isn't it?

I don't see how you can possibly get Irish tax on a UK-registered car as you need the registration certificate (or the form you get when you register the car, at least).

As for the tax issue, it's worth noting that France, in particular, has started clamping down heavily on the huge number of untaxed UK cars in their country (clustered round destination airports for low-cost airlines). The sooner the same happens here with all the Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian etc. deathtraps over here the better.

Incidentally, I imported a car over here on an OMSP of €11997. After an appeal this was revised to €8750 and I was refunded!

SSE

Hi I was wondering what way did you approach the appeal process cos, I recnetly imported a car which they quoted the omsp at 5.5k which was totally ridiculous as the real omsp was max 4k I contested this and got the usual blah blah blah nothing got to do with us at this office just give us the money or we will take your car. Then follow appeal process procedures...I did this and gave the idiots 1316 eventhough I pointed out that the car was in need of repair not to mention the ridiculous omsp, any way one week later I checked the vrt calculator and the omsp stated 2800 and the vrt was around 622 which is what it should have been initally!! This was not a mistake because I rang the office where I gave them the money they demanded, they checked it out and confirmed that yes its exactly the same car I had been quoted for! but the omsp had dramatically decreased in the space of a week, and they seemed equally as shocked but again blah blah blah, thanks for the money but...appeal process! So any way, what kind of documents did you prepare for them and did it take them long to give the money back...any other advice would be great..

 

[sse]

Hi dreamatic

I sent them a letter together with evidence of selling prices of other cars I could find. It took around two months from sending the letter to receiving the cheque and you have to pay the requested VRT first.

I found the staff quite helpful. One point to watch is that you can, in theory, appeal if you don't get a determination after 28 days. In practice, this will mean that you go from near the top of one pile right to the bottom of another so I just hung in there.

I checked the other week and the OMSP on the revenue website had been revised down to the new OMSP value.

SSE

 

[dK1NG]

going back over now in june .july and buying another diesel for the lower vrt and tax rates.... are people mad buying cars here !!!!!!!!
Hi,

Just a quick Q on this.

If I was to buy an 05 Audi A4 (1.9 diesel) now, I'd pay approx 3.5k VRT and 560 tax for the year.

Would there be much of a difference if I was to wait til after teh changes come into effect in July? Also, what tax rate would apply after the changes - would it be the new greener tax or the current one based on engine size??!

 

[MINI80]

Just Imported An Audi A4 S Line And Went To Vrt It And They Said It Would Take Several Weeks To Figure Out Value Of Exras- 18 Inch Wheels, Leather And Metallic Paint. They Kept My Cert By Mistake And When I Went Back For It Today They Refused To Give To To Me Saying I Did Not Need It Anymore. But With Mentions Of Higher Vrt I May Have To Sell It On Which I Cant Do Without The Cert?
Are They Allowed Keep My Cert Or Are They Juust Being Pig Headed?
Thanks