Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) Query

surfmaster,

well said... am in total agreement.. i too have gone to the uk and brought back a far better car that i would have got in ireland.... eventually paid vrt becuase of the wife going on about breaking the law.. am going back over next month buying a honda accord CDTI exec... for a bragain price compared to rip off ireland and this time i won't be paying any VRT !!!!
 
legend said:
surfmaster,

well said... am in total agreement.. i too have gone to the uk and brought back a far better car that i would have got in ireland.... eventually paid vrt becuase of the wife going on about breaking the law.. am going back over next month buying a honda accord CDTI exec... for a bragain price compared to rip off ireland and this time i won't be paying any VRT !!!!
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Legend,

Great to see some more people with a back bone - (my wife won't drive my car with the UK plates in case she gets stopped by the guardai....actually that's probabbly a good thing...)

Anyway, keep the faith and give John Lernihan in The Irishdrivers Association a call - This guy will help you out with queries anytime
 
As I said, quoting European law, directives, current cases, whetever won't cut much ice with customs (and why should it?).What are the relevant Irish laws governing seizure of things like cars for non-payment of VRT?
 
ang1170 said:
As I said, quoting European law, directives, current cases, whetever won't cut much ice with customs (and why should it?).What are the relevant Irish laws governing seizure of things like cars for non-payment of VRT?
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Why should european law / directives cut much ice with customs? - These laws are there to protect you as an EU citizen since...Your fundamental rights!!!

Re part II of your question Scetion 40 of the 1992 Finance Act (Irish Law)is the most often act quoted by government officials however this is in direct conflict to the articels below:

Articles 25 / 90 & 14.2 of EC Legislation & the law of "Principle of Proportionality"
 
My point was that anyone tasked with upholding the law (gardai, customs, whoever) will only work with reference to Irish law.The courts are there to protect your rights, and to sort out any conflicts with European law (or the Constitution for that matter).Unfortunately, as you've pointed out, this is kind of expensive. So much for justice.....My main point though was that there's not much point in blaming the messenger, who's only doing their job.
 
I've just looked up the 1992 Finance Act, which states:Assuming it hasn't been ammended since, I'd say the advice given previously on this thread to refuse to hand over keys in this situation is a bit suspect, given that.....
 
(3) Whenever an officer of the Commissioners reasonably suspects that— ( a ) a vehicle has not been registered, or ( b ) a vehicle has been converted and a declaration in relation to the conversion has not been made under section 131, or ( c ) any vehicle registration tax in respect of a vehicle has not been paid, the officer, if duly authorised by the Commissioners in that behalf and on production of his authorisation if so requested by any person affected, may detain the vehicle until such examination, enquiries or investigations as may be deemed necessary by the officer, or by another officer of the Commissioners, have been made for the purpose of determining to the satisfaction of either such officer whether or not the vehicle has been registered, the declaration aforesaid has been made or the vehicle registration tax has been paid, as may be appropriate. (4) When a determination referred to in subsection (3) has been made in respect of a vehicle, or upon the expiry of a period of one month from the date on which the vehicle was detained under the said subsection, whichever is the earlier, the vehicle shall be seized as liable to forfeiture under the statutes which relate to duties of excise and the management thereof and any instrument relating to the duties of excise made under statute or released.
 
I dont know exact figures though I am pretty sure there has to be 200,000 drivers in Ireland?. My thinking is that if we could get this issue across to the public, then we could possible raise enough funding to bring a case to court. 200,000 x €1 = €200k?.

Then again, if the subject of VRT gained enough backing there could possibly be a legal firm that would offer some sort of pro-bono effort. However I doubt anyone would want to go head to head with revenue.....

Surfmaster, expert knowledge on the subject. Thank you for your continued insite. Why didn't you run for goverment!!.
 
I to agree that VRT is a crude and unfair tax. I'm in the fortunate position to be living in the UK. However, if they scrapped VRT wouldn't the gov't raise taxes in other areas to compensate, perhaps hitting the less fortunate members of your country not in a position to purchase a car in the first place.
 
BOC_ARDEE said:
I dont know exact figures though I am pretty sure there has to be 200,000 drivers in Ireland?. My thinking is that if we could get this issue across to the public, then we could possible raise enough funding to bring a case to court. 200,000 x €1 = €200k?.
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I think political pressure would be more effective. In the past, the govt. here has ignored EU rulings for years without doing anything about it, so it would be a slow process.

Personally I think that the SIMI, depite what they say, are actually a vested interest against change: the last thing they want is more competition. If they were really against VRT, they could insist that each purchaser of a new car make two payments, one to the dealer and one to the Revenue. There is nothing to focus the mind and attention than writing a cheque for a four or five figure sum (I've done it a few times with VRT). You'd get some political pressure building up then fairly fast....
 
ang1170 said:
(3) Whenever an officer of the Commissioners reasonably suspects that— ( a ) a vehicle has not been registered, or ( b ) a vehicle has been converted and a declaration in relation to the conversion has not been made under section 131, or ( c ) any vehicle registration tax in respect of a vehicle has not been paid, the officer, if duly authorised by the Commissioners in that behalf and on production of his authorisation if so requested by any person affected, may detain the vehicle until such examination, enquiries or investigations as may be deemed necessary by the officer, or by another officer of the Commissioners, have been made for the purpose of determining to the satisfaction of either such officer whether or not the vehicle has been registered, the declaration aforesaid has been made or the vehicle registration tax has been paid, as may be appropriate. (4) When a determination referred to in subsection (3) has been made in respect of a vehicle, or upon the expiry of a period of one month from the date on which the vehicle was detained under the said subsection, whichever is the earlier, the vehicle shall be seized as liable to forfeiture under the statutes which relate to duties of excise and the management thereof and any instrument relating to the duties of excise made under statute or released.
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Ever wonder why this has not been updated since 1992?....Because it is in direct conflict with the Law - "Principle of Portionality"

Why else are there numerous charges against the Guardai with the Guarda Ombudsman for false arrest / seizure of vehicles?

This is another perfect example of the Irish Government ignoring EC Legislation, at it would only upset an illegal revenue for the big boyz....
 
BOC_ARDEE said:
I dont know exact figures though I am pretty sure there has to be 200,000 drivers in Ireland?. My thinking is that if we could get this issue across to the public, then we could possible raise enough funding to bring a case to court. 200,000 x €1 = €200k?.

Then again, if the subject of VRT gained enough backing there could possibly be a legal firm that would offer some sort of pro-bono effort. However I doubt anyone would want to go head to head with revenue.....

Surfmaster, expert knowledge on the subject. Thank you for your continued insite. Why didn't you run for goverment!!.
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Only signed up to AAM yesterday as I really find this topic intriguing...Great point above and I know that the IDO are trying to raise funds through membership to bring a case to the ECJ.

The big problem for the government is that they are stuch between a rock and a hard place - If they get rid of VRT right now (which they have to before 2015 anyway) they will upset anyone that has just bought a new car or just paid VRT on a car brought in from another member state.

If they lost their case they could in theory have to pay back any VRT paid by the people of Ireland to the revenue from January 1st 1973....(This of course would have detrimental effects on the economy as it would bankrupt the state so it's not going to happen)
 
Have been speaking to a friend tonight that lives in the borders counties, he was stopped by customs and refused to give the keys over to them. They slapped an immediate €500 fine on him, took his address / details and gave him an hour to get the money from the bank. Unfortunately I didn't get great detail off him as to the threats that were made and what they would do if he refused to pay the fine...will find out more...

I completely understand that abolishing VRT would have a detremental effect on the Irish economy, maybe it could be back dated for 12 - 24 months?. I know this wouldn't be fair on everyone, but at the minute as it stands its not fair on ANYONE.

I wonder if you are self employed could VRT be claimed as an expense also?.

Anyway guys I have just registered a domain called www.abolishvrt.ie.
I am hoping to include price comparions, case studies, an online petition
and all legislative documentation with regards to VRT on it, in the hope that we can make people more aware of whats going on and get the ball rolling against this particular tax and the government. Have some friends that work in revenue also, so will hopefully get extremely detailed information.

Site should be up and running in about 2 weeks and I would very much appreciate any information contributions or general opinions. In particular I would like to hear peoples own experiences with either the customs or guards.

THAT GOES FOR ANYONE JUST READING THIS....

Will keep you posted on progress.

Barry.
 
Well done on registering the above website, count me in for membership...

Pass on my regards to your friend for not handing over his keys.
Not sure if this is the appropriate area however I really would like to know the followinhg re your friend:

What crime did he comit that imposes an on the spot €500 fine?
Did he get a receipt?
Has he reregistered the car in the south of Ireland?
 
surfmaster said:
The big problem for the government is that they are stuch between a rock and a hard place - If they get rid of VRT right now (which they have to before 2015 anyway) they will upset anyone that has just bought a new car or just paid VRT on a car brought in from another member state.
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I'd love to see VRT abolished and hate it as much as you guys and for the same reasons but why would it be gone by 2015 :confused:

I dont see how any tax ratified by our Dail can be illegal as long as we still have tax sovereignty. Are going to lose tax sovereignty by 2015 ? I would think its highly unlikely any government would agree to such a thing.

For example theres also the penal tax on cigarettes and alcohol which are the same principle of taking a product and singling it out from other goods. Why are cars any different ?
 
sign said:
I'd love to see VRT abolished and hate it as much as you guys and for the same reasons but why would it be gone by 2015 :confused:

I dont see how any tax ratified by our Dail can be illegal as long as we still have tax sovereignty. Are going to lose tax sovereignty by 2015 ? I would think its highly unlikely any government would agree to such a thing.

For example theres also the penal tax on cigarettes and alcohol which are the same principle of taking a product and singling it out from other goods. Why are cars any different ?
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Firstly re 2015 - The Commission has taken a legislative initiative with the adoption on 5 July 2005 of a proposal for a directive with the aim of improving the functioning of the internal market and promoting sustainability1. [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Inter alia [/FONT]the proposed directive provides for the abolition in a period
of 10 years of the registration tax and conversely for an increase in the annual circulation tax, in order to solve the issue of double taxation. (This is too far away for me)

Secondly our Dail cannot or any government in a memberstate does not have total tax sovereignty. For Example Article 25 of EU Legislation states that: Customs duties on imports and exports and charges having the equivelant effect shall be prohibited between member states. (This stops double taxation)

​
 
Hi there,

I am about to import a car from the UK and have been reading your posts in relation to this - makes a very interesting read indeed. You just get so sick of being ripped-off in this country.

Anyway, I was just wondering for anyone who has imported a car and hasn't paid VRT - where do you get your insurance? I assume no Irish Insurance company will quote you for an english registered car?

Thanks again for all the info and links. You really have been most helpful.
 
geggles said:
Anyway, I was just wondering for anyone who has imported a car and hasn't paid VRT - where do you get your insurance? I assume no Irish Insurance company will quote you for an english registered car?
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Don't know if anyone who's brought a car in and not paid VRT and got away with it, but in answer to your question, Irish insurance companies will happily insure a car with UK plates. In fact, if you think about it, how else would you be able to drive the car back? They only use the registration as a means of identifying the particular car: you can also use the VIN as far as I know.

Of course, without VRT being paid, you can't register and tax the car.
 
here's a reply I got from the E.U with regard to the legality of VRT
I'd encourage everybody to click on the link and make a complaint.......

Dear Mr. Byrne,


We acknowledge receipt of your message and in response to your question, we would like to inform you that the European Commission has a proposal on the Council table to end vehicle registration tax which in Ireland has proved very unpopular with many motorists. Under the proposal set out on 5 July 2005, car registration taxes would be abolished over five to 10 years, to be replaced by annual road taxes and fuel taxes (so that the tax burden would remain the same but would be related to the use of a car rather than its acquisition). Under the proposal Member States would also be required to give credit if the car had already been subjected to registration tax in another MemberState or refund a portion of registration tax if the car was permanently exported or transported to another Member State.


For further information, we suggest that you visit the web site of the Directorate-General (DG) for Taxation and Customs Union, where you will be able to access information on passenger car taxation, via the following link:
http://www.ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/other_taxes/passenger_car/index_en.htm


Furthermore, we invite you to contact directly the same DG, via the following on-line request form, provided on the link below:
http://www.ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/common/contact/index_en.htm


We also suggest that you contact directly the Irish Revenue Commissioners, via the following web site:
http://www.revenue.ie/


We would also like to inform you that anyone may lodge a complaint with the Commission against a Member State about any measure (law, regulation or administrative action) or practice which they consider incompatible with a provision or a principle of Community law, you can do so via the following link:
http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/complaints/form/index_en.htm


We hope that this information will be of use to you.


With kind regards,
 
geggles said:
Hi there,

I am about to import a car from the UK and have been reading your posts in relation to this - makes a very interesting read indeed. You just get so sick of being ripped-off in this country.

Anyway, I was just wondering for anyone who has imported a car and hasn't paid VRT - where do you get your insurance? I assume no Irish Insurance company will quote you for an english registered car?

Thanks again for all the info and links. You really have been most helpful.
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I have UK plates and insurance with AXA - I had no problem getting insurance
 
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