Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) Query

B

BOC_ARDEE

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Hi folks,

I came up with an idea though I don't know if there is any merit to it...
I recently bought a car in the UK and the VRT is €9500. It then went upto €10200 because I had leather seats and metallic paint..Which is a complete joke.

I noticed that it is possible to register a company in the Isle of Man for €69 including a "virtual address". If I register such a company and deemed the car I just bought as a company car to my Isle of Man company, would I be right in saying that I could legally drive it over here without paying VRT on it as it would already be registered to me in the IoM?.

After a period of 6 months could I then do a business transfer to Ireland?. (Business transfer company cars are VRT exempt).

Has anyone tried this or do they know the tax implications of such an ordeal?. I know its a bit dodgy, but still sounds legal.

Any info or discussions are most welcome....

Regards,
Barry.
 
Hi Barry,

I'm no expert but there are various reliefs and exemptions from VRT. These are described in individual public notices which are available from any VRO. They include exemption which may apply in the case of :

- Transfer of residence
- Transfer of business activity
- Inheritance

I can't comment on the legality of your proposed solution but I doubt it is as simple as that but then again, I'm no expert!
 
Cheers Ivory,

I'm kinda thinking along the same lines as the foreign nationals. They have their cars registered to Polish, Russian addresses or whichever and can legally drive here in Ireland as they are still within the EU.

There are also a lot of people from Northern Ireland who live in the south, that uses their old addresses or relatives addresses to avoid have to pay VRT. Obviously we in the south dont have that luxury as we dont have addresses in other states which is where my whole idea of registering a company in the Isle of Man comes in. It will basically give us a foreign address to register a car too!.

As in my examples above you can see that it has kinda already been done,
so it should be prefectly legal.

I simple refuse to pay the government 10k for absolutely nothing, its a complete outrage and apparently is completely illegal within EU directives, but no one has challenged it in court?.
 
You are far from the first to look for a loophole in VRT, but you can safely assume that the Revenue have seen it all before.

Yes, there are people living here (illegally) driving round in foreign (and I include NI in this) registered cars. However, they are subject to being stopped and having the car confiscated if found not to be complying with the regulations. This can and does happen.

I don't know about the transfer of business activity, but you can be assured that they'd look for substantial evidence that there was such a change (i.e. there was business activity before the move, and an actual move). I know for a fact that they look for similar substantial evidence of a change of residence.

I happen to agree with you that this particular tax is outragous in several respects (e.g. anti-competitive with respect to EU trade, anti-competitive with respect to an effective price fixing cartel between Revenue and car dealers, unfair in the determination of the amounts due etc. etc.).

However, it is the law of the land, and should be followed.
 
The Isle of Man isn't in the EU so the idea doesn't work.

In any case, a company car from another EU state must be re-registered here. A van can be used without reregistration.

EU nationals who bring in their own vehicles, are not required to re-register if they are here for a limited period and provided no Irish person is allowed to drive that vehicle.
 
Nige and Ang,

Many thanks for your comments. Hate to say it though I am getting pretty sick of this country. As I was saying I am getting charged an additional €700 on "extras" for having metallic paint and leather seats as it increases market value of car, only to be told by the VRT office that they only check BMW and Mercs for extras?. So basically if you buy a Toyota with leather and metallic paint your grand?. I think that falls under some sort of discrimination bracket somewhere...


I have also noticed that the ROS website tracks cookies and IP address of PCs, as it says in their privacy policy to "Analyse trends and gather statistics". Meaning they can tell how many people are pricing VRT on various flavours of cars so they can increase the VRT on popular models.

If there are any law heads in the house, I call on you to give your expert opinion. Its is really time that this was challenged as we are paying from 30% - 56% extra for a large piece of metal and some plastic than other
EU states.

The market value of a car is determined by a third party company (SIMI)
and I can't find any legislation anywhere that shows how they determine the additional costs for sunroofs, paint, leather etc. In fact it doesn't say anywhere that you will be charged extra for such items!.

Barry
 
Hi Barry,

Please don't pay VRT, stand up and be counted as an EU citizen.

1) Article 25 of EU Leglisation states that "Customs duties on imports and exports and charges having the equivelant effect shall be prohibeted between member states. - (A registration Tax of STG50 has already been applied on the car thatyou imported from the UK car so this cannot be charged a second time) - You should also look up Article 90 re free trade between EU member states....€9,500 isn't exactly what you would call Free Trade...

2) You should email every Vehicle registration office in the country with your VIN number to find out how much VRT you would have to pay (The reason you should use the VIN number is so that the VRO know the exact makeup of your car including all extras) - I guarentee that you wlll not receive the same quote twice and there will be at least €3,000 in the difference between the lowest and highest quote - Not exactly an open and transparent system!!!!

3) Custom officers or the Guards cannot impound your car unless you willingly hand over your keys - For instance if your car is worth €30,000 and you owe the revenue €9,500 the law of proporationality (EU Leglisilation) states that customs and only sieze your property worth upto €9,500 max. This makes since as to take an item worth €30k for a debt worth €9K is something you wouldn't even see in the Sopranos.
(This is why customs officers have to use intimidation to get you to hand over your keys "willingly") - DO NOT HAND OVER YOUR KEYS)

4) Join www.irishdrivers.org to help you with backup in case customs try any dirty tricks

5) The European Court of Justice has already condemed VRT in Ireland



Regards

John
 
so has anybody actually refused to hand over the keys as advised in the above web site...and if so what actions were taken by the gardai / customs?
 
John / Surfmaster,

Extremely grateful for the information, I think this is vital to anyone in such a situation. Also am delighted to see that the subject of VRT is an active matter with some people and particularly motoring in general. When I started driving my insurance was £5250 punt on a car worth £1000. All in all, over my last 6 years of driving I've paid:

€18000 on insurance premiums
€15200 on VRT (not including current bill of €10500)
and about €3000 on road tax

Grand total: €36200 in 6 years!!! and thats not including the actual price of the cars.

As asked by Brian, could you possibly highlight a case that you know of where a motorist has refused to hand over the keys and outcomes or customs / VRT reponses to such a matter?.

I really think we should all join forces here and fight this. Its something that effects us all. We should be aiming for a better Ireland and stop sitting back and taking it. It actual costs more monthly for me to run my car that it does run my home....

Barry.
 
Then again it actually costs more than the car a month to keep my girlfriend running.....

Whoops better keep that one quiet from the revenue or there'll be some of girlfriend tax...
 
Sorry about the short response last night but I was using a mobile phone to update my reply.....A bit more detail below...

A good friend of mine (who also invested in blackstones EU legislation and is a member of www.irishdrivers.org) bought a BMW 3 Series in the UK nearly a year ago now. In April of this year 3 customs officers arrive at his house on a Saturday morning.

They demanded that he hands over the keys as the car is illegal to drive in Ireland....followed by some more BS....some more info re tax evasion....they will call the guards if he doesn't comply.....and on and on...........so my friend just kept very calm during this lecture and refused to hand over the keys.

He told the customs guy's that he was currently in negotiations with the depatment of revenue - After about an hour the customs guys left and he hasn't heard anything since - He still is driving his BMW 320 with UK plates

---------------------------------------------------

On the flip side I have heard of a case recently where a guy in Donegal was stopped by the guards for driving an NI registared car. He refused to hand over the keys so he was arrested. The Irish Drivers Assoc got straight on to the Guarda Ombudsman and now the arresting guarda himself is facing being charged with false arrest - I have not had an update on the outcome as yet.
 
I am now trying to organise a public meeting in a hotel in Cork in August with the Irish Drivers Association to make people aware of their EU rights and explain why VRT is currently an illegal tax - If you are interested in attending please email me at surfmaster@sultansofsurf.com

John
 
Has anyone challenged the payment of VRT in the European court?
What is the EU stance on ireland seemingly ignoring the EU on such taxes ?
 
For someone in Ireland to take a case to the Europena Court of Justice would cost at least €200K - Unfortunately most people with this kind of spare cash don't need to worry about VRT - The Irish Drivers Assoc are trying to build up funds for this to happen but it's a long costly process.

Below is an example from Finland........

The European Court of Justice has ruled against Finland in a case involving the the requirement that residents of Finland who import vehicles from other European Union member states need to pay for a "transfer licence" to allow them to drive their new car before Finnish registration is complete.
The transfer licence includes a sticker tag issued by customs authorities which is placed in the window of the car, or on top of the foreign licence plate immediately upon entry into Finland.

The court ruled that Finland is in violation of the principle of free movement of goods, by requiring the payment of a transfer licence fee for a vehicle that is legally registered in another member states.
 
surfmaster said:
Sorry about the short response last night but I was using a mobile phone to update my reply.....A bit more detail below...

A good friend of mine (who also invested in blackstones EU legislation and is a member of www.irishdrivers.org) bought a BMW 3 Series in the UK nearly a year ago now. In April of this year 3 customs officers arrive at his house on a Saturday morning.

They demanded that he hands over the keys as the car is illegal to drive in Ireland....followed by some more BS....some more info re tax evasion....they will call the guards if he doesn't comply.....and on and on...........so my friend just kept very calm during this lecture and refused to hand over the keys.

He told the customs guy's that he was currently in negotiations with the depatment of revenue - After about an hour the customs guys left and he hasn't heard anything since - He still is driving his BMW 320 with UK plates

---------------------------------------------------

On the flip side I have heard of a case recently where a guy in Donegal was stopped by the guards for driving an NI registared car. He refused to hand over the keys so he was arrested. The Irish Drivers Assoc got straight on to the Guarda Ombudsman and now the arresting guarda himself is facing being charged with false arrest - I have not had an update on the outcome as yet.
Click to expand...



where did you hear of this??...Ive searched the net and no trace - if a person is to refuse to hand over thier keys they would want to know on what legal footing they stand, not just heresay and speculation
 
Last edited:
briancbyrne said:
where did you hear of this??...Ive searched the net and no trace - if a person is to refuse to hand over thier keys they would want to know on what legal footing they stand, not just heresay and speculation
Click to expand...

In searching the internet have you come across any Irish person that has been legally arrested or jailed for non-payment of VRT? - Give the guys in the Irish Drivers Assoc a call.....

Legally you are protected from handing over your keys -

These rights include your Constitutional Law Rights, your EC Law rights, your Human Law Rights and the important European Law Principle of Proportionality.

Guardai or customs cannot legally sieze you vehicle for non-payment of VRT (European Law Principle of Proportionality) - Also, why have a judical system at all if goverment officials can dispossess you anytime anywhere?
 
I suspect that quoting European law won't cut much ice with customs officials. Presumably they are very well versed on what they can and can't do, so they have an inherent advantage over Joe Public.Customs are able to seize goods AFAIK: the question is to what extent they can do this, and under what circumstances. What are the relevant laws?
 
here is a quote from European statutes...anybody know what the tax is which motor dealers etc face when registering a car here?...see below...at the very bottom is the link for the full article from the EU Website


Registration tax and European law​
Motor vehicle registration tax is not harmonised at the European level. As a result, every Member State has its own rules: some levy a full registration tax (which can be quite high), while others impose no more than a fee to cover the handling charges. The Commission finds
this unacceptable. It has sent a​
proposal for a directive to the Member
States, intended to replace the motor vehicle registration tax with a tax on vehicle use, taking into account the pollution each vehicle produces. However, before such a change can come into effect, the 25 Member States have to adopt it unanimously. As things stand at the moment, Community harmonisation and European Court of Justice
case law have resulted in the following general rules:​


1. First registration in one Member State of a vehicle coming from another Member State.​
The European Court of Justice has ruled that a Member State has the right to levy a registration tax when it registers a vehicle for the first time, even if the vehicle has been used.
However, Article 90 of the EC Treaty must be observed, which means that the registration tax
cannot exceed the amount of tax included in the price of a similar vehicle sold within the same country (see for instance Case C-393/98 – ​
Gomes Valente).
Therefore the Commission has taken Greece to the European Court of Justice (Case C-06/74) (see press release IP/06/41) and has opened a number of infringement procedures, in particular against Poland (see press release IP/06/918), Hungary (see press release IP/05/1279) and Cyprus
(see press release IP/06/485).​

 
Custom officials are well versed in itimidation and work on the basis that joe public isn't aware of their rights - That is why so many people "willingly" hand over their keys. When you hane over your keys you are giving customs permission to sieze your vehicle.

On amazon you can get Blackstones EC Legislation at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blackstones-EC-Legislation-Statute-Book/dp/0199288186

European Law Principles of Subsidiarity and Proportionality which were added as a Protocol to EU Law by the Treaty of Amsterdam
 
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