US Presidential Election 2024

Firefly said:
Agree. Don't really fancy learning Russian this late in my life!
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That's the strange thing about trump why is he so beholden to putin and Russia, its actually not very republican since traditionally republicans were hawkish on foreign policy especially regarding Russia
 
joe sod said:
That's the strange thing about trump why is he so beholden to putin and Russia, its actually not very republican since traditionally republicans were hawkish on foreign policy especially regarding Russia
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Some of it is down to money and corrupting influence.
Trump is a 'patriot for me', and if he in his limited thinking can't see a way to profit financially or profile wise for something, he is not interested in it or hostile to it. He has such influence on voters that he drags weathervane Republicans in his wake.

Some of it is down to shared hostility to democratic freedoms and liberal rights. Trump would like to govern the way Putin does if he could.
There was an isolationist strand in US politics, sometimes more in one party or the other, and it becomes more pronounced after 'war weariness' for want of a better word.
US voters don't see Russia as a direct threat to them, they don't seem to be able to join the dots anymore to the impact disruption in Europe has on them and instead of blaming Russia think they can walk away from it.
 
joe sod said:
That's the strange thing about trump why is he so beholden to putin and Russia, its actually not very republican since traditionally republicans were hawkish on foreign policy especially regarding Russia
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Trump is not really Republican.

He is a racist, misogynistic authoritarian.

A segment of the conservative right in the US has always admired autocrats and hankers back to a time of white supremacy, macho men, and women in their rightful role as housewives and mothers. Anything to the left of that is deemed “radical”.

That philosophy appeals to the present-day MAGA movement.

At different times, the conservative right admired Kaiser Wilhelm II, Franco, Mussolini and Hitler and so their admiration for Putin is just a continuation.

It is a view that people are better off with a strong leader who would keep them and their economy safe rather than a democracy.

H. L. Mencken a US journalist, essayist and a political satirist writing in the 1920s had the same elitist disdain for representative democracy.

Several of his quotes are comparative to Trump and the conservative right of today:

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”.

“Democracy is the theory that common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard”.

“Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance”.

And lastly,

“On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron”.
 
Sophrosyne said:
Trump is not really Republican.

He is a racist, misogynistic authoritarian.

A segment of the conservative right in the US has always admired autocrats and hankers back to a time of white supremacy, macho men, and women in their rightful role as housewives and mothers. Anything to the left of that is deemed “radical”.

That philosophy appeals to the present-day MAGA movement.

At different times, the conservative right admired Kaiser Wilhelm II, Franco, Mussolini and Hitler and so their admiration for Putin is just a continuation.

It is a view that people are better off with a strong leader who would keep them and their economy safe rather than a democracy.

H. L. Mencken a US journalist, essayist and a political satirist writing in the 1920s had the same elitist disdain for representative democracy.

Several of his quotes are comparative to Trump and the conservative right of today:

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”.

“Democracy is the theory that common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard”.

“Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance”.

And lastly,

“On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron”.
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The presumption that democracy is good and superior in all aspects to the alternatives is flawed. Political parties are in the pockets of increasingly influential donors who aren’t in the philanthropy business.

Edward Luce has written a couple of great books on the demise of American society and its diminishing geopolitical influence. The Retreat of Western Liberalism, written in 2018 after a couple of years of Trump’s presidency, is well worth a read.
 
Always worth reading something from the opposite point of view...

And just to add, when Trump - speaking at the Al Smith dinner a few weeks ago - put his hand on NY Senator Chuck Schumer's shoulder and told him, "don't worry Chuck - if Kamala doesn't make it, you still have time to be the first woman president of the United States," to much laughter in the room, he spoke for many Americans who are sick and tired of the kind of extreme gender and other woke ideology embraced by the liberal, "Left-Coast" Democrats. (We've seen similar here too in recent months - SPHE, Referenda etc.)


Trump voters also don’t like being called transphobic because they oppose letting boys play in girls’ sports. They don’t like when Mark Cuban says the only women who could be for Mr. Trump are weak or stupid. Or when the president insists Bidenomics is a smashing success and they would know that if they were only smart enough to appreciate how good they have it.

Mr. Trump doesn’t look down on these Americans, which is why he can work a McDonald's window or ride in a garbage truck though he never did those jobs growing up. A popular meme features a stern-looking Mr. Trump over the tag line, “They’re not really after me. They’re after you. I’m just in the way.”

Trump haters scoff. But if he does win, the message from millions of Trump voters will be “I agree.”
 
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Looks like 290 votes for Trump and 248 for Harris

Market futures showing over 1% jump
 
peemac said:
Could conceivably be 313 / 225 if all goes in his favor.

But with the house of representatives looking like going blue, it will soften Trump's potential.
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It seems like Senate will be Republican though, but at least it won't be a clean sweep.
Bad night for Democrats.
Harris retained the same city and suburban vote as Biden, but her rural performance was at Clinton levels.
 
6 months of him trying to take revenge then 3 and half years of him being bored, playing golf whilst his family and Vance fight over who his succcessor will be
 
Now they reckon biden would have performed better than Harris if he had been left in place. The mistake was to have Harris as vice president in the first place back in 2020. I think that was done to assuage the progressive elements in the democratic party back in 2020.
She ran a good campaign but how can you explain away black men and Hispanics voting for trump ? You can't really blame kamala for that, I mean you had the black lives matter movement during trump president and trump was in favour of hard crack down by police. Yet those very same voters ultimately voted for trump, are they dumb or something, or was the black lives matter movement driven by a tiny extremist minority
 
joe sod said:
Now they reckon biden would have performed better than Harris if he had been left in place. The mistake was to have Harris as vice president in the first place back in 2020. I think that was done to assuage the progressive elements in the democratic party back in 2020.
She ran a good campaign but how can you explain away black men and Hispanics voting for trump ? You can't really blame kamala for that, I mean you had the black lives matter movement during trump president and trump was in favour of hard crack down by police. Yet those very same voters ultimately voted for trump, are they dumb or something, or was the black lives matter movement driven by a tiny extremist minority
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Where you seeing that about Biden?
The exit polls seemed to suggest unfavourable ratings for Biden and current view of the economy.
Maybe a Democrat not connected to the administration would have fared better, but the Senate race suggests maybe not. I think any Democratic candidate would have struggled to get their message through over the Trump circus.
 
joe sod said:
Now they reckon biden would have performed better than Harris if he had been left in place. The mistake was to have Harris as vice president in the first place back in 2020. I think that was done to assuage the progressive elements in the democratic party back in 2020.
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Agreed. What is generally (and incorrectly) described as "woke" is just a form of pseudo-liberal intolerance where cancel culture and censorships of speech and expression is carried on in the name of a nebulous "progressive" movement. The selection of a viability vice president was sacrificed on that altar.
joe sod said:
She ran a good campaign but how can you explain away black men and Hispanics voting for trump ?
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Hispanics are generally religious and socially conservative.
joe sod said:
You can't really blame kamala for that, I mean you had the black lives matter movement during trump president and trump was in favour of hard crack down by police. Yet those very same voters ultimately voted for trump, are they dumb or something, or was the black lives matter movement driven by a tiny extremist minority
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Yes.

Biden's economic policies were, even by Irish standards, far left and fiscally extremely irresponsible. Harris is tarnished by that brush.

Ultimately the Democratic party has been taken hostage by their own extremists in a similar way to how the Republican Party is now just a Trump personality cult. In the end "it's the economy, stupid". People voted for Bill Clinton twice because he balanced the books. Republicans talk about doing that but don't. Democrats don't even talk about it.
 
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