UK State pension - Am I class 2 or Class 3
- Thread starter DannyBoyD
- Start date
Hi all,
I have stumbled across this world of possibilities ironically through a job ad to be an advisor for people to take advantage of this pension opportunity. So, some advice please if you can take the time!
I am originally from Scotland, lived there until I was 22 when I moved to Ireland. I have been here ever since. I worked in the UK from age 16 to probably about 20, mostly just summer work when not in Uni.
I have logged into my HMRC portal and see that I can buy back years that are not full. The amount is over £800 per year which, I assume, is what is meant as Class 3? I have been working in Ireland continuously since 2006 so I believe i should be Class 2?
When I check my pension forecast it says I am eligible but that I have 9 out of 10 years on contributions. So, do I only need to buy back 1 year? Or is that to just get a partial pension? If I buy back more I get a bigger pension? And how do I go about applying for Class 2 instead of Class 3?
Thanks for taking the time.
I have stumbled across this world of possibilities ironically through a job ad to be an advisor for people to take advantage of this pension opportunity. So, some advice please if you can take the time!
I am originally from Scotland, lived there until I was 22 when I moved to Ireland. I have been here ever since. I worked in the UK from age 16 to probably about 20, mostly just summer work when not in Uni.
I have logged into my HMRC portal and see that I can buy back years that are not full. The amount is over £800 per year which, I assume, is what is meant as Class 3? I have been working in Ireland continuously since 2006 so I believe i should be Class 2?
When I check my pension forecast it says I am eligible but that I have 9 out of 10 years on contributions. So, do I only need to buy back 1 year? Or is that to just get a partial pension? If I buy back more I get a bigger pension? And how do I go about applying for Class 2 instead of Class 3?
Thanks for taking the time.
tiegan
Registered User
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This video originally posted on this page is a good start - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YieSy-224F0 - Fill in the CF83 form as best you can - add a comprehensive cover letter stating your reasons for being eligible for class 2 contributions. I sent copies of my PRSI contributions and my NI contributions. It will take a while for the processing. Buying back one year is only going to give you a small uk pension. You need to buy back all the years you are eligible for in order to get the biggest pension you are entitled to. But that will depend on your current age and number of contributions you can both pay back, and pay going forward. I was a similar case to you, they had me down as eligible for class 3 contributions - this is their default position. I was able to pay back as class 2 and also will be able to pay for the next few years until I retire, so I should get nearly a full uk pension. Set aside and hour or two, print off the form and write your cover letter. It will be the worth it!! Lots of good advice on this thread. Start at page 1 and read through it.
LoughLiving
New Member
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Great thread, so helpful, particular thanks to DannyBoyD.
I have the usual question about class 2 or 3. I'm dual nationality Anglo-Irish, left the UK in about 1990 worked in Japan and China until 2014, then went to Ireland bought and renovated a house and since then have been renting out rooms as a landlord, no other work. I have paid tax as a landlord but not PRSI for every year as my income was too low. My question is will I be regarded as self-employed? On the Irish tax form I'm not classed as self-employed. I realise only the Pensions dept can answer this but it would be great if someone has experience/can advise. Obviously it’s preferable to pay class 2. Not sure I could afford to back-pay six years of class 3. I am 60.
I have the usual question about class 2 or 3. I'm dual nationality Anglo-Irish, left the UK in about 1990 worked in Japan and China until 2014, then went to Ireland bought and renovated a house and since then have been renting out rooms as a landlord, no other work. I have paid tax as a landlord but not PRSI for every year as my income was too low. My question is will I be regarded as self-employed? On the Irish tax form I'm not classed as self-employed. I realise only the Pensions dept can answer this but it would be great if someone has experience/can advise. Obviously it’s preferable to pay class 2. Not sure I could afford to back-pay six years of class 3. I am 60.
LoughLiving
New Member
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Called 5 times, got through twice but they couldn't hear me - using Skype. Will try again. I noticed I didn't pay 3 FULL years before I left the UK so I guess I won't qualify anyway on those grounds. I'm actually Anglo-Irish though, holding both passports so I don't know if that would effect things, you know being a British citizen. We'll see.
LoughLiving
New Member
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I finally got through, to an Irish person ironically, and after looking at my stats, just said send in the CF83 ASAP. So I will do that with all the files to prove my employment outside the UK. Seems like this is the point where we can really help ourselves - by putting the best support dossier together, making their decision/work easier.
If you qualify for Class 2 does it specifically say that in your Letter?
I wrote twice asking for Class 2, but both times I received a generic looking letter which doesn't mention either Class, but has a Table on page 2 just showing the Class 3 higher amounts?
I wrote twice asking for Class 2, but both times I received a generic looking letter which doesn't mention either Class, but has a Table on page 2 just showing the Class 3 higher amounts?
I have read the key post and many others. They're very helpful but I still have some queries about my situation before I have a crack at sending in the CF83. I trust this is the right thread for this, thanks in advance for any help.
My basic situation: I lived and worked in the UK 1988-92 and am credited with 7 years NI on Gov.UK and entitlement to a pension from 2035. The website gives me the option of paying the shortfall back to 2006, albeit at Class 3 rates.
I will hold off on some other Qs, my primary doubt is regarding my activity when I returned to Ireland from the UK after being made redundant in 1992: I signed on the dole in Ireland and stayed that way until I emigrated to continental Europe (EU) 12 months later. Does the fact that I was not in employment on returning to Ireland make me ineligible for Class 2? Or does my unemployment benefit "count" in the eyes of UK Govt? Or are they only interested in my status from 2006 on? (I still live in europe EU and am self-employed there).
My basic situation: I lived and worked in the UK 1988-92 and am credited with 7 years NI on Gov.UK and entitlement to a pension from 2035. The website gives me the option of paying the shortfall back to 2006, albeit at Class 3 rates.
I will hold off on some other Qs, my primary doubt is regarding my activity when I returned to Ireland from the UK after being made redundant in 1992: I signed on the dole in Ireland and stayed that way until I emigrated to continental Europe (EU) 12 months later. Does the fact that I was not in employment on returning to Ireland make me ineligible for Class 2? Or does my unemployment benefit "count" in the eyes of UK Govt? Or are they only interested in my status from 2006 on? (I still live in europe EU and am self-employed there).
Thanks, but if I say I was signing on and not working does that automatically rule me out of Class 2?
My experience was to detail the years I was/ was not working in Ireland between 2006 and my application date (2022). The DWP response was for me to pay class 3 for any unemployed year and class 2 for employed years.
I only had one class 3 payment to make so I ignored that year because I have sufficient employed years left (in Ireland) to pay at class 2 to achieve the maximum number of contribution years before claiming the UK state pension.
I'm coming late to this so sorry if this has been asked before (I have tried to search). Apologies but the detail below is a little long winded.
I worked in the UK from January 1995 - June 1996 - that's 18 months.
When I checked my HMRC online it told me the following -
- My state pension summary states I have 6 years on record
- My national insurance record shows 'full year' contributions made in 94/95; 95/96; 96/97 (the amounts differ in each year but the record says 'full year' for each)
- For all years until the present date it says 'Year is Not Full'
- I cannot see how I have 6 years contributions paid if my record does not show this
- I suspect a flatmate from my time in UK may have used my NI number to work or claim the dole, but if they did would I not be able to see the contributions made online?
- From 97 - 2006 the HMRC website says it is too late to buy back these years
- From 2007 to present date it says I can make a voluntary contribution to buy back the years @ approx., €800 per year (slightly differing amounts for some years) - I assume this is Class 3 contribution
My question is, should I just pay the Class 3 contribution for the last 16 years, as that added to my 6 years on record and 14 years going forward will give me a full pension
or
Should I complete the CF83 form and seek to pay Class 2 contributions? My concern would be if I do this is that as I can't state when I left the UK based on not knowing when these 6 qualifying years came from. Would I be opening a can of worms that might bring this 'error' or 'falsehood' in their records to notice an result in me losing all rights to a pension?
I worked in the UK from January 1995 - June 1996 - that's 18 months.
When I checked my HMRC online it told me the following -
- My state pension summary states I have 6 years on record
- My national insurance record shows 'full year' contributions made in 94/95; 95/96; 96/97 (the amounts differ in each year but the record says 'full year' for each)
- For all years until the present date it says 'Year is Not Full'
- I cannot see how I have 6 years contributions paid if my record does not show this
- I suspect a flatmate from my time in UK may have used my NI number to work or claim the dole, but if they did would I not be able to see the contributions made online?
- From 97 - 2006 the HMRC website says it is too late to buy back these years
- From 2007 to present date it says I can make a voluntary contribution to buy back the years @ approx., €800 per year (slightly differing amounts for some years) - I assume this is Class 3 contribution
My question is, should I just pay the Class 3 contribution for the last 16 years, as that added to my 6 years on record and 14 years going forward will give me a full pension
or
Should I complete the CF83 form and seek to pay Class 2 contributions? My concern would be if I do this is that as I can't state when I left the UK based on not knowing when these 6 qualifying years came from. Would I be opening a can of worms that might bring this 'error' or 'falsehood' in their records to notice an result in me losing all rights to a pension?
I believe you have to complete the CF83 form to pay either class 3 or 2. Even though the online record shows you can pay class 3 you still need to officially apply for clearance to pay.
January 1995 to June 1996 spans three tax years:
3 months in April 94/95
12 months in April 95/96
3 months in April 96/97
You might have earned enough within each tax year to have a qualifying year for each. I believe the threshold for this is [52 x the weekly "lower earnings limit"], which would have been about £3,000 at the time.
The additional three years could be starting credits for the years you were aged 16, 17 and 18. You'd receive these even if you were not in education in the UK.
assets.publishing.service.gov . uk/media/5a7c58e740f0b62dffde1832/eia-ni-credits-changes.pdf
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That explains it perfectly!
In 94/95 I paid £230 - 95/96 I paid £1,174 - 96/97 I paid £336 - obviously enough to classify each as a full year.
The other three years must be due to the starting credit piece.
I will submit the CF83. I will seek to pay Class 2 and see what happens!
Thank you both for the advice.