Ulster UB staff/ex staff

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Yes ombudsman will.not accept your query once you have the final response from the complaint handling unit in UB. I chased the FSPO yesterday for an update. Bare in mind our complaint is with them since October2018 and the bank already refused mediation. They are now just preparing a summary for the bank. They have previously come back for further information as well as clarification recently. They said the bank will have 20 days to respond to the letter they send and I will also get a copy of it. Seems there is progress now since they came before the oireachtas committee 2 weeks ago. I would love to know the numbers of ex staff affected. This is a can of worms they don't want to open but if enough pressure they will have to.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Yes ombudsman will only accept your query once you have the final response from the complaint handling unit in UB. I chased the FSPO yesterday for an update. Bare in mind our complaint is with them since October2018 and the bank already refused mediation. They are now just preparing a summary for the bank. They have previously come back for further information as well as clarification recently. They said the bank will have 20 days to respond to the letter they send and I will also get a copy of it. Seems there is progress now since they came before the oireachtas committee 2 weeks ago. I would love to know the numbers of ex staff affected. This is a can of worms they don't want to open but if enough pressure they will have to.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Please remember if the bank say that their T&cs are published on their intranet now...don't forget this is only available to staff to see and not sure that is sufficient or would be held up in court. I have included this information to the FSPO also as I expect that is what the bank will revert with when looking at the complaint.
 

Homesweethome:)

Registered User
Messages
18
Hi JM, There was definitely no t&cs available before so if they are there now surely they would have to show when these were added?
I have my confirmation letter of the staff rate move from tracker and the email that I sent to get the rate changed to the staff rate and there is no reference to any t&cs.
 

Homesweethome:)

Registered User
Messages
18
I also contacted Michael Mc Grath and he contacted me back for some extra information so hopefully something will come of that, I agree that the more people that contact him the better, thanks JM.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Hi JM, There was definitely no t&cs available before so if they are there now surely they would have to show when these were added?
I have my confirmation letter of the staff rate move from tracker and the email that I sent to get the rate changed to the staff rate and there is no reference to any t&cs.
The email I sent is about the only thing I don't have, I do have a copy of the confirmation of them putting me on staff rate but no T&Cs were ever given to me.
I also know of quite a senior member of staff who had always been under the impression that staff rate was only to prevail when it was preferential, if the rates dropped the reinstatement of former rate was to prevail. Most of us here also would have had the pleasure of paying BiK on our so called preferential rate! I think what is frustrating me most is that I know there are staff that left and kicked up so much rhey got their tracker back long before TME started! I think I've said it before here, I know of a staff member who wasdeemed impacted. At the time of TMEidentifying her they immediately put her back on the tracker. She was quite happy to stay fixed for the certainty of budgeting but the bank forced her off th3 staff rate and back to tracker! It's bizarre and I reeally hope the right thing happens. I find it hard to explain to my other half who is obv not staff! I stay positive and wait in joyful hope!
 

SaySomething

Frequent Poster
Messages
565
Obviously I'm not staff...however I can confirm that during the tracker examination all historic mortgages were unilaterally moved to new T&C when they changed their IT systems. This happened mid-2017.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Obviously I'm not staff...however I can confirm that during the tracker examination all historic mortgages were unilaterally moved to new T&C when they changed their IT systems. This happened mid-2017.
Thanks and yes, I'm aware that might be the case, I was staff involved in that IT enhancement however I have been asking since 2013 to break out of staff rate and have tracker back so the old T&Cs would have still stood as far as I am concerned
 

Homesweethome:)

Registered User
Messages
18
The email I sent is about the only thing I don't have, I do have a copy of the confirmation of them putting me on staff rate but no T&Cs were ever given to me.
I also know of quite a senior member of staff who had always been under the impression that staff rate was only to prevail when it was preferential, if the rates dropped the reinstatement of former rate was to prevail. Most of us here also would have had the pleasure of paying BiK on our so called preferential rate! I think what is frustrating me most is that I know there are staff that left and kicked up so much rhey got their tracker back long before TME started! I think I've said it before here, I know of a staff member who wasdeemed impacted. At the time of TMEidentifying her they immediately put her back on the tracker. She was quite happy to stay fixed for the certainty of budgeting but the bank forced her off th3 staff rate and back to tracker! It's bizarre and I reeally hope the right thing happens. I find it hard to explain to my other half who is obv not staff! I stay positive and wait in joyful hope!
I agree, it’s hard to believe that this is still dragging on as it completely fits the same criteria of my (and others) other sub account (started on tracker, fixed, should have returned to tracker). Whether the bank expected us to stay on the staff rate for the full mtg term is irrelevant as there was no t&cs and it was well known that you could ‘hop’ in and out of the staff rate. I requested to do that in 2009 when the rates dropped. I do firmly believe also JM that this will come good but the amount of effort to get it resolved is ridiculous! I have requested all of my info from UB and am waiting for that also so I will see what comes out in that too.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
I agree, it’s hard to believe that this is still dragging on as it completely fits the same criteria of my (and others) other sub account (started on tracker, fixed, should have returned to tracker). Whether the bank expected us to stay on the staff rate for the full mtg term is irrelevant as there was no t&cs and it was well known that you could ‘hop’ in and out of the staff rate. I requested to do that in 2009 when the rates dropped. I do firmly believe also JM that this will come good but the amount of effort to get it resolved is ridiculous! I have requested all of my info from UB and am waiting for that also so I will see what comes out in that too.
I share your belief but the stress and effort is actually not fair to the people who have worked for the company and no did so under difficult integrations and vast changes through their loyalty. It is widely known that some staff have been given their trackers back over the years so consistency here needs to prevail. Fair play to Michael McGrath, he reverted yesterday to say it does seem to be a wider issue and that the CBI have sided with the Bank, however the ombudsman is very clear they will side with the mortgage holder if that is the right thing to do.
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
Oh this is so exhausting! So we decided to go the appeals panel route with the staff part of the mortgage as we felt it is one mortgage and should be treated as such. We sent all relevant paperwork to ombundsman and appeals panel. After 6 months of back and forth with appeals panel they adjudicated in our favour in march 2019. We were thrilled finally a resolution! However appeals panel advised the bank to put us back on tracker and to refund us from 2009. The bank came back and told appeals panel they had no right to take this sub account into the appeals process as they had deemed it not impacted. The appeals panel are still fighting my case but they can't make them pay out. It's so frustrating!
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Oh this is so exhausting! So we decided to go the appeals panel route with the staff part of the mortgage as we felt it is one mortgage and should be treated as such. We sent all relevant paperwork to ombundsman and appeals panel. After 6 months of back and forth with appeals panel they adjudicated in our favour in march 2019. We were thrilled finally a resolution! However appeals panel advised the bank to put us back on tracker and to refund us from 2009. The bank came back and told appeals panel they had no right to take this sub account into the appeals process as they had deemed it not impacted. The appeals panel are still fighting my case but they can't make them pay out. It's so frustrating!
I can feel your frustration @Chazza80. When you say you sent the paperwork to the ombudsman and the appeals panel, have you heard from ombudsman. It's really good news that the appeals panel have taken this view based on the evidence. The bank won't like that a mortgage they should have identified as impacted by TME has slipped through but petty if they ignore the recommendation of the appeals panel. I was advised by UB complaints dept not to take ours to appeals as it wasn't the route as had not been deemed impacted, hence the final response then they issued us. The ombudsman seems to be making progress, they served our investigation papers to the bank earlier in the week. They have sought evidence I know full well does not exist...clarity around moving us to staff rate in 2006, rules around at that time. Why I was told that unless I left the bank I couldn't have my tracker back. This has to pick up pace, there are too many of us for them not to do the read across. We all also seem to know of staff who have been reinstated to tracker from staff...I know of 2 people for certain. Keep the faith, it is great news the appeals panel have made that conclusion , it gives me hope that the ombudsman will also do the same using the same evidence. Hope common sense prevails. I finally sat last night and watched their appearance at the oireachtas committee from a few weeks ago and it is maddening that they sit there and say all accounts identified. You should take your case to Michael McGrath or Pearse Doherty for visibility if you haven't done so as yet.
 

SaySomething

Frequent Poster
Messages
565
Oh this is so exhausting! So we decided to go the appeals panel route with the staff part of the mortgage as we felt it is one mortgage and should be treated as such. We sent all relevant paperwork to ombundsman and appeals panel. After 6 months of back and forth with appeals panel they adjudicated in our favour in march 2019. We were thrilled finally a resolution! However appeals panel advised the bank to put us back on tracker and to refund us from 2009. The bank came back and told appeals panel they had no right to take this sub account into the appeals process as they had deemed it not impacted. The appeals panel are still fighting my case but they can't make them pay out. It's so frustrating!
The Appeals Panel are right, they cannot compel the bank to do anything as the payouts/rulings are ultimately at the banks' discretion.

In your shoes, I would ask the Appeals Panel for a final letter and go straight to the Ombudsman; who can compel the bank to put your back on the tracker and refund you. The fact that the Appeals Panel have already ruled in your favour is extremely positive.

The other option is to pass on your file to the Central Bank via the Finance Committee, HOWEVER, you are depending on the Central Bank oversight of the Tracker Mortgage Examination. I have found that while some of the individual members of the Committee are brilliant advocates for customers, they don't have an in depth understanding of what is going on (how could they after all they have other roles and jobs to complete). Doing this could add further lag to your case. Also bear in mind that the Central Bank will never deal with an individual customer so you may never get satisfaction this way.
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
Hi all I ended up just putting my file with anyone who would take it last year. That's how it ended up with appeals panel. They rang yesterday they have been so so good keeping me in the loop constantly with up dates which is a breath of fresh air. They have asked the bank yo reply to a number of further questions and their 20 days was up last week to respond but panel say I will have more news next week. I have spoken to ombundsman and the panel both advised that I have to exhaust this option first than I can go back to ombundsman. However after reading this last night I think I will send email to Michael McGrath, the letter I have on favour of our case I feel is gold. And exhausted or not I won't give up!
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
Just to clarify also while I was going through the 6 months appeals process the bank sent me out a letter to say that that sub account had not been deemed impacted by ub. I don't take on any of ub advice as to who to go to next. My advice get your paperwork to anyone who'll take it. The appeals process continues to be outstanding with regard to pushing bank for timelines and collecting of evidence the more avenues gone down collectively the better. So glad to hear that there's more of you out there makes me feel I'm not insane...and not question myself lol
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
50
Just to clarify also while I was going through the 6 months appeals process the bank sent me out a letter to say that that sub account had not been deemed impacted by ub. I don't take on any of ub advice as to who to go to next. My advice get your paperwork to anyone who'll take it. The appeals process continues to be outstanding with regard to pushing bank for timelines and collecting of evidence the more avenues gone down collectively the better. So glad to hear that there's more of you out there makes me feel I'm not insane...and not question myself lol
I agree the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing! You are in a stronger position now knowing that the appeals panel have come to this conclusion albeit that they have no power to make the bank act accordingly...it is wrong and it will seem so wrong when it comes to light that they did this to some of their staff while under the table giving some staff their trackers back. Don't give up you are another step forward.
 

notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
359
Hi all I ended up just putting my file with anyone who would take it last year. That's how it ended up with appeals panel. They rang yesterday they have been so so good keeping me in the loop constantly with up dates which is a breath of fresh air. They have asked the bank yo reply to a number of further questions and their 20 days was up last week to respond but panel say I will have more news next week. I have spoken to ombundsman and the panel both advised that I have to exhaust this option first than I can go back to ombundsman. However after reading this last night I think I will send email to Michael McGrath, the letter I have on favour of our case I feel is gold. And exhausted or not I won't give up!
Hopefully the appeals panel might sort them - but if you do end up going to the FSPO I was told by the appeals panel that their submission does carry a good bit of weight and then the info given to the Finance Committee was that 5/10 appeals gone on to the FSPO have favoured the customer, fingers crossed
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
Hopefully the appeals panel might sort them - but if you do end up going to the FSPO I was told by the appeals panel that their submission does carry a good bit of weight and then the info given to the Finance Committee was that 5/10 appeals gone on to the FSPO have favoured the customer, fingers crossed
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
Ok so just an update no real news yet except to say that I've been told I will have a response from the bank tomorrow 10 further days of a 20 day response timeline (no suprise there). Also I took peoples advice and decided what harm would it be to email Michael McGrath so I have done that yesterday. No response yet but more that know about it the better.
 
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