To Activate Or Not Activate The Smart Meter ??

[Cervelo]

I'm about to move back to Airtricity from Energia and noticed that now that I have the new smart meter I can opt to use this new meter
But looking at the rates going forward I'm concerned if I do activate the meter it will result in slightly higher bills and once you make the move there is no going back

The standard rate from Airtricity is €19.11 and the Smart Meter rates are 8AM to 11PM €19.95 11PM to 8AM €15.13 with a peak rate between 5PM to 7PM of €21.29
Between the 11PM to 8AM, apart from the TV, a computer, the dishwasher and washing machine, I presume there is very little electricity used compared to the other times during the day.

So I'm wondering at this stage is switching on the "Smart Meter" going to result in higher bills??

 

[Leo]

I haven't seen the wording of the notices being sent, but you're not obliged to move to a 'smart' plan.

 

[AJAM]

Should be easy enough to calculate Cervelo. Just take a note of the 3 meter readings and multiply by the rates.
Is it true that you can never switch back? or switch to a day/night rate once you've switched to a smart rate?

 

[Cervelo]

Should be easy enough to calculate Cervelo. Just take a note of the 3 meter readings and multiply by the rates.
Is it true that you can never switch back? or switch to a day/night rate once you've switched to a smart rate?

It amazes me sometimes when I can't see the trees for the woods and then somebody says something and bang there it is!!

My last electricity bill showed I used on average 11 units a day, so dividing that evenly over the day and using the "Smart rates" indicates to me that there is a saving of around .14 cent a day to be had by switching over but I would presume given that my electricity usage is not evenly used over the day and my usage would be more at the higher smart rates that this saving would be soon be gobbled up especially during winter time when I'd use more electricity during the day

My understanding re the Smart meters is that at the moment we have a choice to avail of the service but in a couple of years when all households have them then that choice will be gone and we'll all be on the "Smart rate tariffs going forward, so yes once you make the switch to "smart" there is no going back

Anyhow for the moment I signed with Bord Gais and kept the electricity a standard charging

 

[asdfg]

I am on the smart rate with electric Ireland. Bill shows only one rate 21.12 cents

 

[Cervelo]

I am on the smart rate with electric Ireland. Bill shows only one rate 21.12 cents

Well you learn something new everyday, I thought that with a smart meter you only had one choice of tariff but from what I've just read and can see on Electric Ireland the are multiple tariffs including the single daily rate which you seem to be on
It seems each supplier can set there own Smart tariffs and bill accordingly, in EI case there are three, a single daily rate, a day & night rate with a night boost and a day & night rate with a peak rate

 

[Nordkapp]

Two choices with BG, free Saturday or Sunday elecy {up to 25kw per week AFAIK or 100 kw per month, they don’t call that out in marketing blubber} Smart metering. Been on the Smart plus night boost for 4 bills or 8 months and will never go back to level pay.

Bills are controllable, manageable and less than the level pay

 

[Cervelo]

It's that time of the year again for the Gas and electricity renewal
Last year I ended up moving to Bord Gais and going by the rates been offered I'm probably going to stay with them
As of today I'm been offered discounted rates of
Gas 10.45
Electricity 39.7
which I think is about as good as I'm going to get

But I thought I'd enquire about the smart meter rates
Gas 11.39
Smart Electricity Day: 39.70 Night: 29 Peak: 48.5
and if I wanted I could get free usage between 9am and 5pm Saturday or Sunday up to 100 kwpm as well on those rates

So popped the rates into the Cervelo usage calculator and it still is more expensive for me to move to the smart rates
even with the cheaper night rate and the free time on the weekend the smart rate is still slightly more expensive over the year,
Smart €1742 Std €1738, now the difference is so small that with a bit of usage tweaking the I could make the Smart rates work for me but not by a sizable saving or a saving that would incentivise me to make the switch
But what has really struck me as odd is the gas rate that I'm been quoted on the Smart plan, why is it at a higher rate then the normal rate??
even though the difference is minuscule €0.0094 per unit it would now add about €200 to my yearly gas bill which would far exceed any savings to be made from the smart meter

So for me this will be my second year running that I won't be switching over to the new smart meter rates

 

[Micks'r]

But what has really struck me as odd is the gas rate that I'm been quoted on the Smart plan, why is it at a higher rate then the normal rate??
even though the difference is minuscule €0.0094 per unit it would now add about €200 to my yearly gas bill which would far exceed any savings to be made from the smart meter

So at over 20k kWhr per year gas usage there may be some easy wins on the usage side of the equation. Assuming, like most households this usage is mostly for space heating, have you thought about improving the heat loss characteristics of the house, heating system controls etc?
Might be some easy wins there.

 

[elcato]

I presume the smart meter rates include the current Standard Charge which EI and one other are 25% dearer than the rest at the moment.

 

[Cervelo]

So at over 20k kWhr per year gas usage there may be some easy wins on the usage side of the equation. Assuming, like most households this usage is mostly for space heating, have you thought about improving the heat loss characteristics of the house, heating system controls etc?
Might be some easy wins there.

I was probably a little over zealous in quoting "around €200" current usage for this year is 14689kwh, so we probably average 15k per year
Slightly more if its a cold winter and less if not so a figure around €150 would be more precise
House is double glassed and attic insulated with the boiler and dual controls up graded in 2008
we have the heating on 24/7 but control it with a nest thermostat set to 18'c
This years total cost is €992 but that is down because we were in Spain December through to end of February
Normally I expect a annual bill of somewhere around twelve hundred, 2020: €1013, 2019: €1282 and 2018: €1120
Not sure if there would be any cost effective savings but might look into it if the energy prices stay at current levels

 

[Cervelo]

I presume the smart meter rates include the current Standard Charge which EI and one other are 25% dearer than the rest at the moment.

As far as I'm aware there is no difference in the additional charges between a smart meter account and a normal one with Bord Gais
Just a small increase for the pleasure of a electricity smart meter account

 

[Sue Ellen]

I am on the smart rate with electric Ireland. Bill shows only one rate 21.12 cents

Well you learn something new everyday, I thought that with a smart meter you only had one choice of tariff but from what I've just read and can see on Electric Ireland the are multiple tariffs including the single daily rate which you seem to be on
It seems each supplier can set there own Smart tariffs and bill accordingly, in EI case there are three, a single daily rate, a day & night rate with a night boost and a day & night rate with a peak rate

Last year when we moved we went to a set 24 hour Smart rate which in hindsight was probably slightly more expensive. We moved from Bord Gais to El Ireland. Shortly after we moved they appear to start pushing the 3 different rates over the day.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

So is there any conclusion to all this?

1) From a selfish point of view - don't switch to the smart meter.
2) From the environmental point of view, switch to the smart meter.

Brendan

 

[joe sod]

So is there any conclusion to all this?

1) From a selfish point of view - don't switch to the smart meter.
2) From the environmental point of view, switch to the smart meter.

Brendan

environmental !! I wouldn't be basing my decisisions on that because when wind power is on the system is highly variable. Currently 98% of supply is coming from thermal power stations, circa 10% is coming from renewables (probably hydro mostly) and 9% is being exported (-9% net import) according to the Eirgrid data table

 

[bstop]

When the opposite happens on a very windy day and there is an ambulance of clean energy the people with smart meters should be offered very cheap or even free electricity. This was to be one of the big advantages of installing smart metering. Unfortunately in Ireland the idea of giving the ordinary citizen a break doesn't exist.

 

[Early Riser]

When the opposite happens on a very windy day and there is an ambulance of clean energy the people with smart meters should be offered very cheap or even free electricity

So, as a corollary of this, are you suggesting that on windless days people with smart meters (or everyone?) should pay more (or much more) for electricity? Or are you just suggesting that electricity prices be cut? State subsidised maybe?

Unfortunately in Ireland the idea of giving the ordinary citizen a break doesn't exist.

How would you ringfence this benefit for "the ordinary citizen"? Would the smart meters be able to differentiate? How would you define who qualifies as "an ordinary citizen" for this benefit?

 

[Early Riser]

environmental !! I wouldn't be basing my decisisions on that because when wind power is on the system is highly variable. Currently 98% of supply is coming from thermal power stations, circa 10% is coming from renewables (probably hydro mostly) and 9% is being exported (-9% net import) according to the Eirgrid data table

What figures would you like to see before basing your decisions on environmental grounds? If all, or most, electricity was coming from renewables all of the time (even on windless winter days) what justification would there be for activating a smart meter on environmental grounds?
Or are you just saying, in a camoflaged way, that "environmental grounds" are not going to influence your decision?

 

[Cervelo]

Okay then,
Spent the last few hours re working the figures again and rather than using Bord Gais's estimated electricity usage of 4200kwpy and their percentage breakdown of Day: 64% Night: 23% and peak: 13% that I used in post #8, I'm going to use my actual gas and electricity consumption over the last year and the percentage differences between day, night and peak that I monitored during a week in September this year

So for my gas consumption the yearly figure is 14689 Kwh and the electricity is 3960Kw broken down into Day: 52.63% Night: 32.9% and Peak: 14.47%

So the new "more accurate" figures are
Normal dual fuel with gas @ 10.45 and electricity @ 39.7
Gas : €1535 and electricity €1572 total yearly bill €3107
Smart dual fuel with gas @ 11.39 and electricity @ Day: 39.7 Night: 29 and Peak: 48.5
Gas: €1673 and electricity €1483 total yearly bill €3156

So at this stage the normal rate is slightly cheaper over the year €49 but I didn't factor in the smart rate free electricity between 9am and 5pm on Saturday or Sunday which should over the year save me about €85, so now the smart plan is cheaper by €36 over the year

It seems now that although I'll pay a bit more for my gas on the smart plan the electricity is cheaper and if we make a few small changes to when our usage we could make a few more euros worth of savings

So the question for me now is the "potential" saving on electricity €174 worth the definite increase on the gas €138 ??

And to answer your question Brendan
It's nothing really to do with been selfish or the environment and more to do with which is the cheapest way to heat and power my home!!

 

[bstop]

Bear in mind that the government were recently considering charging people with smart meters more for their electricity during peak evening hours. This could be back on the agenda if there are forced power cuts due to shortage of gas. It is not possible to levy this extra charge on customers with ordinary meters.