If we are being realistic here these sons and daughters of politicans are being gentley nugged throughout thier life in the right direction and given that ever so slightly wink and a nod and a little bit of help. their qualities pushed to the fore by politically powerful parents and associates while their failings ignored. Trouble is that equation is reversed for thier political compeditors in thier own parties. All the while the matra of "hes/shes got there throught their own ability not throught parental support" is being spouted.
Yes they all have ability but they all happpen to be from political families and overall that is not good for democracy as it places power in the hands of an elete few. Several kings in history had ability is that a reason to uphold monarchy
I suggest that the fact that he was probably immersed in politics from an early age can only add to his CV, not detract from it.
I hear what you are saying but I don't hear what you suggest as a fix. Those who are interested in politics get involved in politics and get elected. What else do you expect?you are still not getting my point
I can list off politicians who do not do well in office but I can't think of any of them that are stupid. Do remember that it's a very difficult job.If i want I could go down through the literaly hundreds of examples (not exaggerating) of sons/daughters of politicans who got elected who are for want of a better phrase "of dubious intellect".
No, you said that they were "of dubious intellect". What does that mean so?I did not say they were stupid.
Libertas are saying that the huge cost to business of EU regulations is a reason to vote NO to the Treaty. Yet the business community (IBEC, ISME) seems to be in favour of a Yes vote. Who is right here ? Is a Yes vote bad for Irish business or not ?
According to this map, a swathe incorporating Middlesex, Oxfordshire and Warwickshire (I think) are already on the mainland. Zut alors!!!!Now this is my kind of Europe!
The capital of the Atlantic Zone would be Lisbon.
The camera never liesWhy are FG using the same wax foto of Enda, that lost them the election, in their Lisbon Yes posters? Do they secretly want a No vote?
A lot of pro-Yes people are going around saying that we should vote Yes because the EU has been good to Ireland to date.
I see this as a reason to vote No. If the EU, as it currently stands, is good for Ireland, I see no reason to change it.
I also have issue with all the Yes people scaremongering and giving people the impression that we have to vote Yes or we will be kicked out of the EU. This is not a referendum on Ireland's EU membership and Ireland will still be in the EU even if we vote no.
The world will not stop if we vote no. Plenty of other EU members have rejected things in the past and the world still turns. People like the UK, who have been members as long as us, havent even got the Euro yet.
There's no getting away from the fact that Lisbon shifts power to the bigger states, centralizes decision making and is in effect a constitutional foundation for a United States of Europe.
If people want that and want to vote for it that's fine. It irks me that the Yes camp won't be honest with the people in relation to this, although I can understand their reluctance. Any Yes people here prepared to agree with my first sentence above?
Anyone who shares your views should vote Yes. Aren't you even slightly uncomfortable with how the politicians are mis-selling the Treaty?Sure,I'll be voting Yes because I fully support any changes that drive us towards a United States of Europe or similar, federal arrangement.
Yes, if you believe in a one-size-fits-all approach where laws passed will reflect what the big states want (Ireland will be irrelevant with less than 1% of a vote under QMV).The bigger states will have more clout - thats democracy though, isn't it ?
This is as per the EU's own rules. Where the lack of democracy come into it is that France and Holland have already rejected essentially the same treaty and that 26 countries are denying their people a say - our politicians would deny us a say if it weren't for our constitution. It is telling that the European Parliament voted down a motion to respect the outcome of the Irish Referendum (Dublin MEP, Frank Ross being one of those voting down the motion - back in the day that would have been treason and would have carried a heavy penalty). Also telling is that Brian Cowen has threatened to expel any conscientious objectors from his party and that he won't commit to one referendum only on this issue.If the treaty is voted down in Ireland, then it fails to be adopted because 1 out of 27 states says no. Is that democratic ?
Yes.Anyone who shares your views should vote Yes. Aren't you even slightly uncomfortable with how the politicians are mis-selling the Treaty?
Yes, if you believe in a one-size-fits-all approach where laws passed will reflect what the big states want (Ireland will be irrelevant with less than 1% of a vote under QMV).
True. Which is why the Lisbon Treaty is necessary to change those rules.This is as per the EU's own rules.
Where the lack of democracy come into it is that France and Holland have already rejected essentially the same treaty and that 26 countries are denying their people a say - our politicians would deny us a say if it weren't for our constitution.
What did the motion actually mean ? If we voted Yes or No what would it mean in practice if the EU Parliament added the words "respected the outcome of the Irish Referendum" to the Corbett Report on the Lisbon Treaty . Its completely meaningless. I'm not surprised MEPs did not approve to add it.It is telling that the European Parliament voted down a motion to respect the outcome of the Irish Referendum (Dublin MEP, Frank Ross being one of those voting down the motion - back in the day that would have been treason and would have carried a heavy penalty).
Also telling is that Brian Cowen has threatened to expel any conscientious objectors from his party and that he won't commit to one referendum only on this issue.
Okay so that arrogant young isolationist brit tries to make a name for himself with some very cheap shots. I cringe when a brit fascist praises paddies and advises them how to vote.This sums it up for me.
Indeed, anyone who opposes Lisbon is either in league with the US military, an ultra right-wing fundamentalist, a goose stepping fascist, an extreme left-wing nutbar, an isolationist, confused, anti-European . . have I missed any?Okay so that arrogant young isolationist brit tries to make a name for himself with some very cheap shots. I cringe when a brit fascist praises paddies and advises them how to vote.
I think many on both sides do this.The spokesmen for the Yes campaigns don't deal with the specifics of the treaty, they play the man not the ball, so to speak.
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