The feud(s) in Limerick

T

The_Banker

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With the gang feuding in Limerick going from bad to worse I was a bit taken aback by calls by senior Gardai on national newspapers this morning appealing for the gangs to step back from the brink. Indeed one solicitor has offered to mediate between the gangs.
Surely in a civilised society there should be no dealing or offers to mediate with people who have no respect for law and order or indeed the lives of people.
Offers to mediate between these people is only conferring on them some sort of legitimacy. Lets say the mediation works and they stop killing each other? Surely then their resources will be directed towards profiting from drug dealing and other crime.

To my mind, resources should be used to put these people out of business once and for all. If it takes putting the army into the area and imposing curfews or some form of marshal law then so be it. Enough is enough.
 
they should get Timmy and Jimmy from Southpark to mediate like they did with the Bloods and the Crips!
 

Agreed.
 
Guessing none of the above actually live in Limerick. And bringing an army into other parts of the country worked a treat, oh hang on, it was a disaster!
 
The people involved in this wouldn't give a damn if the army was deployed. The gardai emergency response unit are hardly teddy bears and yet people are still walking around shooting each other.

I agree that something needs to be done. If it requires temporary draconian legislation that will have human right groups protesting on the streets, so be it. Do you think the US would have room in Guantanamo for a few more? We can stick a few on the next rendition flight leaving Shannon.
 
DavyJones said:
Guessing none of the above actually live in Limerick. And bringing an army into other parts of the country worked a treat, oh hang on, it was a disaster!
Click to expand...

Can it be any worse than what is happening now? Gangs below the control of law and order.
While I agree the introduction of the army may be a step too far in many peoples minds my central point was that these thugs should not get official sanction to mediate with one another.
 

Could it be worse, absolutely. Thankfully we haven't had a case yet where an innocent bystander has been killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time like that young plumber was robbed of his life for nothing more than being there. Although it's a matter of time before something like that happens in Limerick.
I belive if differances can be settled through peaceful means and doesn't involve infringements to society as a whole. then that can't be a bad thing.
 
Well I dont think a militaristic response is totally unfeasible/uncalled for.

A series of checkpoints at the entrances/throughout to the 5 main "hotspots" (Southill, Ballinacurra Weston, St. Marys, Moyross & Garryowen) with regular foot patrols in these areas should keep things under wraps.

I think our army is more likely to be too soft than trigger happy so I wouldnt have any fears.

Whether checkpoints and patrols are manned by soldiers or armed gardai makes no odds to me.

IMHO the fact that all guards are not yet armed is a joke - this aint frugal Ireland anymore, parts of Limerick are like South Central LA/South Bronx - how would the cops there like to be unarmed?? And we wonder why guards wont get out of the car?
 
The situation is entirely out of control. When that happens, you should look at all the available mechanisms to see what, if anything, can be done to resolve the situation. One possibility is to bring in the militia but as Davy Jones says : "And bringing an army into other parts of the country worked a treat, oh hang on, it was a disaster! ". A.N. Other alternative is the mediation route.

When I look at 18 year olds being shot dead and buried in a shallow grave I grieve for them and their lost childhood. Yes - they are thugs, but they are children who have grown up in a relentless spiral of unemployment, social deprivation, gangland warfare etc.,etc. Military rule is not going to work. What is more likley to work is social change of conditions.

I remember the Governor of Mountjoy saying that 90% of the inmates came from X number of postal codes. Go figure.

"Surely in a civilised society there should be no dealing or offers to mediate with people who have no respect for law and order or indeed the lives of people."

Northern Ireland, anyone? Though I'm still to be convinced that the ghettoes of Catholic and Protestant are crumbling towards resolution of differences.

mf
 
Stop the revolving door for a start- I know there will be some judges,solicitors/barristers gasping at the prospect of not having enough work to invoice to keep them in the lifestyle they're become accustomed to but if they gave longer sentences and had sentences running consecutively instead of concurrently. There should be one sentance and jail term for each offence.

It's organized crime- The cab should be in asking how these "settled" criminals can afford expensive cars/homes with no obvious income.

And if all else fails, could they not put them on the rendition flight that lands in Shannon each week. A stint in Guantanamo would be a possible solution... I'd gladly turn my back for a few weeks to allow the guards to round them up.
 


I agree with this. To those who say it wont work and point to the North etc, I have to say the North was a political problem. Limerick is a criminal problem with those criminals having absolutely no political support from the decent and threatened law abiding families who have to live next to them in the affected areas. You wont find any scumbag, innocent murdering, bullying, swaggering deathdrugdealing criminal going on a hunger strike and giving his life for his principles. Will you ? What principles do they have except 'me fein' ?
 
Do these young tearaways have (responsible) parents? The guards do very little in containing such behaviour. A soundbite from their PR or from the local minister is the order of the day. I'm sure that most citizens of that embattled city would love to have the crimnals behind bars, rather than hear the local top brass witter on about about the great and brave work that these guardians of the public do. How did it get to this situation? Poor policing policy. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Thats harsh. You just can't just blame the guards for this. Over 50 members of the families involved are in jail so its not as if they are sitting around doing nothing. What hope do guards have when 13 year old boys are walking around armed wearing bullet proof vests? What are they supposed to do with him?

The guards put their lives on the line every day knowing that these people would shoot them as soon as look at them. Witnesses have been intimidated. Communities have been silenced. Look at the faces of the people convicted of murder. They couldn't give a damn. You can't successfully police an area like this using current legislation. It is time that this government fought back like they have done in the past by introducing CAB atc after Veronica Guerins murder. There are social issues that need to be addressed but there is no point building beautiful new estates if the criminal element has not been dealt with.
 

I can see your point but we should beware taking it too far and giving people a free run - the trouble with most people these days is the lack of personal responsibility for anything. Everything is someone elses fault.

There has been plenty of jobs going in Dell which people could have done if they had a mind, but they'd rather draw the dole (unskilled jobs but basically available to any ablebodied person who was willing to do it).

I think the idea of "social contract" has to be brought in - we (the State) will support you with welfare as long as you dont prove yourself to be a willing burden on the State (i.e. a career criminal). Why should we put money in the pockets of confirmed and unrepentent scumbags?? The greatest "carrot" known to man is being put on the table in Limerick (the entire regeneration of neighbourhoods) but I think we need to introduce a selection of sticks to incentivise people to "tow the line".
 
mf1 said:
I remember the Governor of Mountjoy saying that 90% of the inmates came from X number of postal codes. Go figure.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that crime is fairly evenly spread across all Dublin postcodes but it is the bias from the Gardai/judiciary sees those from 'certain' postcodes more likely to be arrested/convicted?

Do tell more about this fabulous conspiracy theory.
 

If you look at my post:

"What is more likely to work is social change of conditions."

I don't think there is any argument with the idea that social deprivation, exposure to petty crime from an early age and long term unemployment is more likely to lead to a life less fortunate with a consequent unfortunate slide into criminal activity. I don't think I've suggested that "it is the bias from the Gardai/judiciary sees those from 'certain' postcodes more likely to be arrested/convicted?". Crime is less of a problem in middle class areas than areas of social deprivation. Maybe because families/parents are more likely to deal with the issue.

mf
 

So your point was :

"The greatest proportion of people in jail hail from areas where the greatest proportion of crimes are committed".

What is unusual about that?
 
When I look at 18 year olds being shot dead and buried in a shallow grave I grieve for them and their lost childhood. Yes - they are thugs, but they are children who have grown up in a relentless spiral of unemployment, social deprivation, gangland warfare etc.,etc. Military rule is not going to work. What is more likely to work is social change of conditions.


I repeat.

Fix the social problems. At, admittedly, enormous cost.

mf
 
We should bring in a three strikes rule. I would not mind if more of my tax money was spent on prisons, with the net result being the scum are taken out of society.

Dublin is full of scum. I live in the city centre and they're everywhere. These people have no respect for anything and they just go through life causing problems. Being kind and gentle to these people does not work. They only understand their way of life (violence, suffering) and as we (thankfully) cannot dish out violent punishment in this country, the alternative should be to take them out of society altogether.
 
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