The Director General of RTE wants an increase in the licence fee ... seriously ????

MrEarl said:
In principal, I agree with those who are prosecuted being hit with the cost of taking legal action against them alongside the original licence fee. However, that said, the route of the problem is the inefficient method of collecting the licence fee which could be partly dealt with, if applied when tv's were first purchased (i.e. if you buy a tv you must produce your current licence, or pay for the first year at the time of buying the tv and let the retailer forward it to the relevant authority so the licence can be issued).
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Hmm, not sure about that approach... it's an inventive idea but it sounds like a lot of overhead keeping track of used licences versus addresses. The state doesn't even keep track of driving licences & motor tax that well.

Would we have a reciprocal arrangement with the UK - unless they move to the same licence fee model, what's to stop someone dodging the ROI licence fee by buying one up North?
What about selling on of second hand TVs?
Would this make the theft of TVs more attractive?
We already have sales of 'dodgy boxes', so people can get subscription TV for free... and blackmarket cigarettes... could this lead to an explosion of 'dodgy' TVs'?
 
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odyssey06 said:
How much do you think it costs to issue the fine, track down the person, keep track of missed payments etc etc???
I thought the point was to generate revenue. None of it sounds like a cost efficient way to operate.
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The point is to generate revenue, just like all taxes, and just like all taxes once they are in place the State has to make sure they are collected.
 
Purple said:
The point is to generate revenue, just like all taxes, and just like all taxes once they are in place the State has to make sure they are collected.
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Apparently, Lois XIV’S finance minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, declared that "the art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing."

This really doesn't seem to pass that test to me... There's a lot of plucking and a lot of hissing and not many feathers coming out.

The cost of collection should be a small percentage point of the revenue collected.
If we include the court time tied up on TV licence evaders as well as the +10 million spent on collection... that's a lot of cost relative to the 150-200 million it brings in.
Then consider Some charges (e.g. ESB) have the advantage of limiting demand.
I don't think the TV licence passes either of those tests.
 
odyssey06 said:
Apparently, Lois XIV’S finance minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, declared that "the art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing."

This really doesn't seem to pass that test to me... There's a lot of plucking and a lot of hissing and not many feathers coming out.

The cost of collection should be a small percentage point of the revenue collected.
If we include the court time tied up on TV licence evaders as well as the +10 million spent on collection... that's a lot of cost relative to the 150-200 million it brings in.
Then consider Some charges (e.g. ESB) have the advantage of limiting demand.
I don't think the TV licence passes either of those tests.
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The main cost of collecting it is the fact that you can do it through the Post Office and the Post Office charges a fee for handling it. It's just a subsidy for Post Offices (like the dog licence). Force people to do it online by charging a higher rate if you want to do it through the Post Office.
It's what they do in the passport office; the cheapest may for the State to produce a Passport is if you post in the application. That method costs the least. If you arrive in two days before you travel it costs a fortune for the State to get the passport made so they charge you a higher fee. The same thing should apply to TV licences.
 
Purple said:
The main cost of collecting it is the fact that you can do it through the Post Office and the Post Office charges a fee for handling it. It's just a subsidy for Post Offices (like the dog licence). Force people to do it online by charging a higher rate if you want to do it through the Post Office. It's what they do in the passport office; the cheapest may for the State to produce a Passport is if you post in the application. That method costs the least. If you arrive in two days before you travel it costs a fortune for the State to get the passport made so they charge you a higher fee. The same thing should apply to TV licences.
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We don't have enforcement agents going around trying to ferret out people in their own homes without passports though.
And the passport is an individualised service, it's not annual... I don't think it's a similar situation.
 
Purple said:
The main cost of collecting it is the fact that you can do it through the Post Office and the Post Office charges a fee for handling it. It's just a subsidy for Post Offices (like the dog licence). Force people to do it online by charging a higher rate if you want to do it through the Post Office.
It's what they do in the passport office; the cheapest may for the State to produce a Passport is if you post in the application. That method costs the least. If you arrive in two days before you travel it costs a fortune for the State to get the passport made so they charge you a higher fee. The same thing should apply to TV licences.
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you can get your tv licence on line, An Post provide the service. However forcing people to do it online by charging a higher rate if you walk into a Post Office would rightly be seen as another anti-rural policy given that half of rural Ireland has little or no broadband service and won't have it for many years.
 
odyssey06 said:
We don't have enforcement agents going around trying to ferret out people in their own homes without passports though.
And the passport is an individualised service, it's not annual... I don't think it's a similar situation.
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You are not required by law to have a passport. You only need one if you wish to travel outside Ireland and the UK. You are required to have a TV licence if you have a TV. If you choose to pay for it in a way which costs the State more then you should be charged more.
 
thedaddyman said:
you can get your tv licence on line, An Post provide the service. However forcing people to do it online by charging a higher rate if you walk into a Post Office would rightly be seen as another anti-rural policy given that half of rural Ireland has little or no broadband service and won't have it for many years.
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There is already a massive subsidy of rural people by urban people. How much extra do you think they should get?
Anyway, you don't need broadband to open simple interactive forms. You can do it on your phone with a half decent signal.
 
"Purple, ]There is already a massive subsidy of rural people by urban people.


there is also a massive subsidy by urban people to other urban people you only have to look at where most of the water charges protesters/leaders came from to know that. I suspect if you took the time to check you would have found out a higher % of rural people pay there TV licence and water charges


If you ever want to become a Politician you will have to compete for votes against the likes of Paul Murphy who like you finds someone else to blame , pay your way it is want to pay not how you pay that counts don't be like the penny looking down on the halfpenny and expecting someone to give you a clap on the back,
 
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Purple said:
There is already a massive subsidy of rural people by urban people. How much extra do you think they should get?
Anyway, you don't need broadband to open simple interactive forms. You can do it on your phone with a half decent signal.[/QUOTE

that's assuming you can get a half decent mobile signal which isn't always possible.

I'm sure rural people will look at the lovely motorways, Luas extension, buses and free water that Dubliners get, most of which are funded through direct taxation and have a different view.
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thedaddyman said:
I'm sure rural people will look at the lovely motorways, Luas extension, buses and free water that Dubliners get, most of which are funded through direct taxation and have a different view.
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The cost per head of population of delivering services in rural areas is far higher than in Urban areas.

There is far more road per person in Leitrim than in Cork city.

Look at the allocation of money from property taxes; €5.06 per person in Dublin, €7.38 per person in Cork City, €169.43 per person in Monaghan and a whopping €260.47 per person in Leitrim. The figure for Leitrim actually constitutes a cut per person on the subsidy that they received through the Local Government Fund.

Rural broadband will also cost a fortune which will be paid for by the State. The vast majority of revenue is generated in urban areas; Dublin accounts for half the country’s GDP and the average worker in Cork generates €105,000 in GDP (in Dublin it’s €96,000). This is due to number of multinationals in Cork.


There is no doubt that Urban Ireland massively subsidises Rural Ireland but that’s no unusual in the developed world and it is socially desirable. My question wasn’t that it shouldn’t happen, it was how much more to rural people expect to be subsidised by their urban neighbours.
 
"I'm sure rural people will look at the lovely motorways, Luas extension, buses and free water that Dubliners get, most of which are funded through direct taxation and have a different view."

Is this a joke? Any rural person who thinks that mustn't have learned how to count properly in school, though that's probably a Dub's fault for not spending more on their education.

Should there be a joke motorway between two places with no one living in them like the joke train service in Clare?
Or between the capital and the rest of the country and major cities?

Last time I checked, it wasn't just Dubs on the motorways - besides, lots of the motorways have tolls and Dubs have to pay those tolls too or all along have I missed the 'free lane for Dubliners';
If Dubs stopped using the motorways to see the country then the rural tourist locations would join the chorus of rural whingers!
I suppose the motorways carry no goods, either from rural Ireland e.g. farm produce to the capital; or medicines from urban areas to rural Ireland? No?

And the Luas or buses either in Dublin City for that matter don't just carry people in Dublin jerseys ... and breaking news, you have to pay to use those services, even if you're a Dub.
A disgraceful situation I know. In our own city we really shouldn't have to pay to use our buses.
If we only allowed real Dubliners to own cars in the city, the real Dubs wouldn't need public transport so much as the road wouldn't be clogged with reg plates from the other 25 counties.
Dublin for the Dubliners I say, there should be entry fees for anyone entering the capital from outside and work permits needed for jobs here if you're born outside the Pale.
 
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odyssey06 said:
Apparently, Lois XIV’S finance minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, declared that "the art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing."

This really doesn't seem to pass that test to me... There's a lot of plucking and a lot of hissing and not many feathers coming out.
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All I am hearing is a lot of hissing from the lucky pluckers in Montrose :D
 
MrEarl said:
Yup, not a word out of our Minister for Communications though... he should be kicking a$$ out in Donnybrook !
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MrEarl said:
Yup, not a word out of our Minister for Communications though... he should be kicking a$$ out in Donnybrook !
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Rabbit checked a few years ago to see if he could keep on plucking and the answer was no more feathers for plucking time to start selling the taxpayers silver instead.Ministers Kiss a$$ out in Donnybrook and the people out in Donnybrook kiss a$$ back. Even the people who were expecting a feather in there cap for paying on line got plucked the same amount. The canny people from Leitrim were allowed to keep a few feathers to feather there own nest .while the people from Dublin are trying to figure out a way of keeping the nests out in Donnybrook Well feathered .While the throw rotten eggs and Hiss at there country cousins While Joe keep them busy and feeling they are being listened to,
 
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jjm said:
Rabbit checked a few years ago to see if he could keep on plucking and the answer was no more feathers for plucking time to start selling the taxpayers silver instead.Ministers Kiss a$$ out in Donnybrook and the people out in Donnybrook kiss a$$ back. Even the people who were expecting a feather in there cap for paying on line got plucked the same amount. The canny people from Leitrim were allowed to keep a few feathers to feather
Purple said:
The cost per head of population of delivering services in rural areas is far higher than in Urban areas.

There is far more road per person in Leitrim than in Cork city.

Look at the allocation of money from property taxes; €5.06 per person in Dublin, €7.38 per person in Cork City, €169.43 per person in Monaghan and a whopping €260.47 per person in Leitrim. The figure for Leitrim actually constitutes a cut per person on the subsidy that they received through the Local Government Fund.

Rural broadband will also cost a fortune which will be paid for by the State. The vast majority of revenue is generated in urban areas; Dublin accounts for half the country’s GDP and the average worker in Cork generates €105,000 in GDP (in Dublin it’s €96,000). This is due to number of multinationals in Cork.
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Click to expand...
 
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