The death of Ashling Murphy

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RetirementPlan said:
I would be surprised.

How can you have sex if neither party consent?
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Two drunk people can have sex. That's not unusual.
RetirementPlan said:
I'm really not getting 'many victims are also perpetrators' thing? Yes, there are cases where both parties will abuse each other, but that would seem like a fairly unusual and rare situation, rather than a 'many victims' thing.
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Why would it be unusual? There are plenty of couples where both drink too much and shout at each other and have a generally destructive relationship dynamic.
 
Purple said:
Two drunk people can have sex. That's not unusual.

Why would it be unusual? There are plenty of couples where both drink too much and shout at each other and have a generally destructive relationship dynamic.
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Absolutely, two drunk people can have sex, but not if both are drunk beyond giving consent.

There's a difference between 'a generally destructive relationship' and 'many victims are perpetrators'. It is a fairly extreme claim, with absolutely no evidence to support it.
 
RetirementPlan said:
Absolutely, two drunk people can have sex, but not if both are drunk beyond giving consent.
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The human urge for and ability to have sex are pretty much indestructible. They persist long after other abilities (e.g. to make rational judgements & give informed consent) have vanished in a haze of dodgy substances.
 
RetirementPlan said:
There's a difference between 'a generally destructive relationship' and 'many victims are perpetrators'.
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There is. The first step in these discussions is to define the parameters. What do we mean by "perpetrator", "Victim", and, most importantly, "Abuse".
RetirementPlan said:
It is a fairly extreme claim, with absolutely no evidence to support it.
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It depends on how we define the above terms.
 
Purple said:
That's the problem though, what constitutes "drunk beyond giving consent" is subjective. The victim can be awake and talking.
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I think the moral boundary here is between enthusiastic consent and reluctantly granted consent following inability to resist sustained persuasion.

Encoding that boundary into law is an extremely tricky business, though, and fraught with potential unintended consequences for all.
 
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