Tax Treatment of Landlords has to be Revisited

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I heard from a friend who has shall we say 'links to the government' that the eviction ban will definitely be extended in March. They have no other ideas for stopping the exodus of small landlords and therefore no way to stop the increase in homelessness which will come inevitably come when more landlords sell up. No tax breaks for landlords without reductions in rents apparently. There you have it folks.
 
Mocame said:
I heard from a friend who has shall we say 'links to the government' that the eviction ban will definitely be extended in March. They have no other ideas for stopping the exodus of small landlords and therefore no way to stop the increase in homelessness which will come inevitably come when more landlords sell up. No tax breaks for landlords without reductions in rents apparently. There you have it folks.
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Surprised there has not been a High Court challenge to what is essentially interference in landlords property rights.
 
I am now a lawyer but I feel a challenge would probably win. The issue is who would take it? The Irish Property Owners Association are absolutely useless and no one is representing small landlords.
 
Mocame said:
I am now a lawyer but I feel a challenge would probably win. The issue is who would take it? The Irish Property Owners Association are absolutely useless and no one is representing small landlords.
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Some of the people who have come back from short term trips abroad and can't take repossesion of their property and are homeless would have the strongest case you'd imagine, but would they have the funding or be organised enough to do some kind of class action?
 
Could be something as simple as a gofund me page to raise funds. Don't know much about IPOA as don't hear much from them but surely they should be leading the charge on this, this constant interference needs to stop. Govt under successive incompetent housing minister's have been riding roughshod on us for too long
 
RonnieShinbal88 said:
Some of the people who have come back from short term trips abroad and can't take repossesion of their property and are homeless would have the strongest case you'd imagine, but would they have the funding or be organised enough to do some kind of class action?
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One woman in the Irish Times?
Or is there a tsunami that we're not aware of?
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
AFAIK not possible under Irish law.
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Correct. Still not yet possible.
www.oireachtas.ie

Enterprise Committee to resume pre-legislative scrutiny of the Representative Actions for the Protection of the Collective Interests of Consumers Bill, 2022

The Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment will meet on Wednesday September 14th, to resume pre-legislative scrutiny of the Representative Actions for the Protection of the Collective Interests of Consumers Bill, 2022.
www.oireachtas.ie
 
ClubMan said:
One woman in the Irish Times?
Or is there a tsunami that we're not aware of?
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I thought I read a couple of similar stories but it's a moot point if class actions are not possible.
But it would only take one challenge, maybe she could do a gofundme and get supported by small landlords nationwide.
 
A lot of landlords are leaving the market because they fear that regulations will be introduced whereby they cannot dispose of their property when they want to. Of course proper notice would have to be given to tenants but it is the landlord's property and they should be able to get it back if they want it. RTB are not fit for purpose - if rent is not paid there doesn't appear to be any definite way to get troublesome tenants out - also there is a problem where landlords try to keep tenants deposit when it should be returned - RTB should be dealing with deposits. It is not a landlords responsibility to supply housing, that is the governments/councils job and if this was done there would be less demand for private rented accommodation.
 
ClubMan said:
It's not their responsibility, but it's the business that they chose to engage in.
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Under specific terms and conditions, covered by a rental lease. Admittedly subject to political risk which one foolishly might not have suspected was a major concern in Ireland as opposed to say some Banana Republic, we are all living and learning.

Anyway I'm off to buy a Porsche washing machine, tenants will be delighted!
 
The Horseman said:
Why are they so reluctant to actually bite the bullet and listen to landlords?

The three main issues for me is tax, inability to evict non paying tenants and the rpz while simultaneously expecting me to invest without a corresponding return.
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Because SF will batter them saying they are pro landlord and anti renter/tenant/young person.

The more landlords that the SF rhetoric drives out of the marketplace, the more popular they become. That's how messed up the whole situation is. And once these landlords are gone, they are not coming back. But SF if they get into government will have to try and find some fix. Perhaps they are hoping for a huge house price crash or recession and this state construction company who'll build 100,000 houses will actually have the trades people unemployed to actually do this. Who will pay for it.....well, crucify the workers, let them pay for it all.
 
The Horseman said:
Fair enough but surely they are not that stupid to realise if they improved the rental supply (or a min kept it stable) it would win them some votes?
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There needs to be a tax cut in return for a freezing of rents by landlords or cutting rents. It goes completely unnoticed that the Exchequer takes over 50% of tenants monthly rent and it's the landlords that are vilified.
 
I kinda like Darragh O Brien, in the sense that, I think he wants to do the right thing, but I have to say, I actually had a laugh when I heard about the the tax relief that would sway a property owner from leaving the dysfunctional rental market, and then, I got a little embarrassed for him in thinking this is his great plan, and then, I realised I’m one of the property owners sitting on the fence, and then I got flipping annoyed at the insult to ones intelligence,

I propose this,
The first €1250 rental income is reduced tax to a new band of 12:5% anything over, and the full amount is subject to 48% max.
RTB is disbanded as let’s call it what it is, an absolute disgrace
Tenants to be held accountable for non payments and the trashing of the property
Eviction to be seen as a realistic option for above issue
Rogue landlords have their property taken over by the state..no ifs or butts, do it right, or get out of the market
Rent a room should be taxed at the 12.5%, again anything over the €1250 and full tax should apply..

I let a 700sqft 1 bed in Dublin for €1250, they have lovely kitchen, large bedroom, updated bathroom and living room, and cost me €130k some years ago, I pay top rate of tax on it and have limited control, earn half the yearly rent, and fix any problems that arise, yet someone can let out their 10\6 pokey box room, €1400 tax free and can turf them out anytime if they act the maggot, enjoying a windfall of rent. It’s totally messed up

Fixing the points above would see me getting off that fence, and continue with the providing of a good clean property, at a fair rent for everyone concerned.
 
Leo said:
The challenge is how to increase supply at a scale that would be noticed. They have no easy answers to that right now.
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It's not increasing supply is the urgent issue. The urgent issue is stopping the exodus of landlords from the market. At a time when demand for rental accomodation and markets rents are highest ever.
 
T McGibney said:
They have.

Build, build, build.

But they're scared of doing that as they'd be criticised for it.
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Can you tell me where the people who actually will do the building are at this moment in time? Are they on the dole? Or living in Canada or Australia? Will they leave the private sector and come take a public sector job?

This is always the solution, but I've yet to hear anyone actually provide the detail on it. That fella Rory Hearne peddles this rhetoric constantly and never explains any detail.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
It's not increasing supply is the urgent issue.
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Of course it is.

Suppose a very clever alien race built half a million homes overnight dotted all over Ireland.
Rents would collapse and homelessness would all but disappear. There would be zero need for rent controls as housing would be affordable for everyone.

Once you have enough supply the distribution takes care of itself.
 
Greenbook said:
Darragh O'Brien now saying that being a small landlord is a very expensive business. That is a bit of a turn round. Previously, it was the most lucrative business ever - money for jam.
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Pity the fool didn't realise than prior to the budget last year. He wants to do some kite flying now to "encourage" landlords to stay in the sector come April when the eviction bans ends. Promising to look at taxation of landlords in October 2023 for the tax year 2024. Another eviction bans next November again. A total bluffer of a minister.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Of course it is.

Suppose a very clever alien race built half a million homes overnight dotted all over Ireland.
Rents would collapse and homelessness would all but disappear. There would be zero need for rent controls as housing would be affordable for everyone.

Once you have enough supply the distribution takes care of itself.
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It's not about increasing supply in the immediate term. Building a house will take 12-18 months.

The pressing issue is 1st April 2023 when the eviction bans ends. They'll have thousands of rentals being evicted and houses up for sale. No houses started to be built tomorrow will replace these houses. That's the pressing issue right now.

Could medium term it's about increasing supply but it's not short term.
 
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